>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY FIRST, HILLARY CLINTON'S PRESIDENTIAL RUN, THE HISTORIC PERSPECTIVE AND THE IMPACT OF HER LOSS.

THEN, THE WOMEN'S VOTE AND HOW WHITE WOMEN WITHOUT COLLEGE DEGREES MAY HAVE GIVEN DONALD TRUMP THE PRESIDENCY.

HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE CLINTON PRESIDENTIAL RUN.

THE US WOMEN'S RIGHTS MOVEMENT BEGAN IN THE MID-NINETEENTH CENTURY, TIED CLOSELY TO THE ANTI-SLAVERY MOVEMENT.

THE FIRST DEFINITIVE POSITION ON WOMEN'S EQUALITY WAS TAKEN IN 1848 UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF ELIZABETH CADY STANTON AT THE WOMEN'S RIGHTS CONVENTION AT SENECA FALLS, N.Y.

IN 1878 SUFFRAGIST SUSAN B. ANTHONY WROTE A PROPOSED RIGHT-TO-VOTE AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION.

IT WAS APPROVED AND WOMEN WON THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON A NATIONAL SCALE IN 1920.

JUSTINE EISENBERG WAS TWO YEARS OLD THEN.

>> ONE OF THE FIRST MEMORIES THAT I HAVE OF MARCHING IN A WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE PARADE IN 1920 IN CENTRAL PARK.

SO THAT, TO KNOW THAT WE HAD, MORE THAN 100 YEARS LATER, THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE FOR A WOMAN PRESIDENT, IT WAS A MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENT I FELT.

>> ALTHOUGH SHE'S DISAPPOINTED BY CLINTON'S LOSS SHE SAYS LET'S NOT WASTE TIME SHEDDING TEARS.

>> WE CANNOT WALLOW IN DISAPPOINTMENT.

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO, AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO VERY CONSCIOUSLY DEVELOP A MOVEMENT TO ELECT A WOMAN AS PRESIDENT.

>> AN EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT DRAFTED IN 1923 BY THE NATIONAL WOMEN'S PARTY REMAINED DORMANT FOR ANOTHER 50 YEARS.

THE ERA WAS APPROVED BY THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IN 1971 AND BY THE SENATE IN 1972.

ON JUNE 30, 1982, HOWEVER, RATIFICATION OF THE ERA FELL THREE STATES SHORT OF THE 38 NEEDED BY THAT DEADLINE.

LATER CONGRESSIONAL EFFORTS TO REINTRODUCE THE MEASURE HAVE FAILED, BUT CONTINUE TO THIS DAY.

WOMEN HAVE MADE HISTORY AS PRESIDENTIAL AND VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES, STARTING WITH SHIRLEY CHISOLM.

IN 1972 SHE WAS THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN TO RUN FOR A MAJOR PARTY NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT AND THE FIRST WOMAN TO COMPETE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S NOMINATION.

IN 1984, GERALDINE FERRARO BECAME THE FIRST FEMALE DEMOCRAT TO BE NOMINATED FOR VICE-PRESIDENT.

SARAH PALIN FOLLOWED HER AS THE FIRST FEMALE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR THAT OFFICE IN 2008.

WOMEN GAINED ONE SEAT IN THE US SENATE, UP TO 21 AND ACTUALLY LOST A SEAT, DOWN TO 83 IN THE US HOUSE.

DESPITE HER LOSS, ELLIE SMEAL OF THE FEMINIST MAJORITY FOUNDATION SAYS HILLARY CLINTON'S HISTORIC CANDIDACY MOVED WOMEN FORWARD: >> SHE'S DEFINITELY A PART OF WOMEN'S POLITICAL HISTORY.

SHE BROKE-- SHE'S THE FIRST WOMAN IN THE POPULAR VOTE.

IT WAS THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.

SO SHE DEFINITELY WILL.

AND SHE CONDUCTS HERSELF WITH SUCH GRACE.

I THOUGHT HER CONCESSION SPEECH WAS NOT ONLY GRACEFUL, BUT IT WAS INSPIRING.

AND SHE SPOKE RIGHT TO YOUNG WOMEN.

CAN'T BE DISCOURAGED.

AND I THINK THAT SHE HAS SHATTERED HER SHARE OF THE GLASS CEILINGS, WE WILL SHATTER THIS SMEAL ALSO SAYS WOMEN COULD SEE BIG LOSSES DUE TO DONALD TRUMP'S SUPREME COURT SELECTIONS: >> I'M VERY WORRIED ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, THAT WE MIGHT LOSE IT.

THEY SAY THEY'RE GONNA PUT SCALIA'S ON THE COURT, WHICH WOULD TAKE AWAY ROE V. WADE.

I MEAN IT WOULD BE OUTRAGEOUS.

THEY SAY THAT THEY'RE GONNA CHALLENGE BIRTH CONTROL ACCESSIBILITY SCALIA DIDN'T BELIEVE WOMEN HAD ANY RIGHTS EXCEPT THE RIGHT TO VOTE UNDER THE CONSTITUTION.

HE SAID THAT THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT BAN SEX DISCRIMINATION.

ONE OF THE WAYS THEY WIN THESE CAMPAIGNS IS THROUGH DECEPTION.

AND THEY CONSTANTLY ARE SAYING, THEY SAID REPEATEDLY, 'NO ONE RESPECTS WOMEN MORE THAN I.'.

WELL, HE BETTER START ACTING LIKE IT.

AND I TELL YOU, THEY ATTACK THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT, THEY ATTACK EDUCATION, THEY ATTACK ACCESS, THERE WILL BE EVEN A BIGGER GENDER GAP.

WE'RE NOT GOING BACK.

WILL HISTORY DECIDE THAT HILLARY CLINTON'S RUN MOVEED WOMEN FORWARD OR BACKWARD?

>> THE EVIDENCE IS IN.

HILLARY BROKE THE CEILING TO BECOME THE FIRST WOMAN IN HISTORY TO WIN THE POPULAR VOTE IN A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

>> PUSHED FORWARD BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE THE IMAGE OF A WOMAN RUNNING AND WINNING THE POPULAR VOTE BUT RUNNING ALONE FOR BOYS AND GIRLS IT SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT.

>> NO QUESTION IT PUSHED EVERYTHING FORWARD THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE GOTTEN THIS FAR AND IT'S HARD TO EVEN OVERESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF YOUNG BOYS AND GIRLS SEEING A WOMAN AS A CREDIBLE CANDIDATE FOR THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE LAND EMPTY I THINK IT PUSHED IT FORWARD BUT I SAY THAT WE CAN BE PROUD OF WOMEN'S PROFESSIONAL SUCCESSES EVERYDAY NOT JUST ELECTION DAY.

>> NOBODY THINKS THE FACT THAT SHE LOST MIGHT SAY TO SOME YOUNG WOMEN DON'T TRY?

>> NO.

NOT AT ALL.

>> I THINK THAT MUCH SO.

BUT I THINK THAT IS A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

WHETHER WOMEN'S POLITICAL PROGRESS WAS PUSHED FORWARD THAT IS NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

I DO WORRY THAT WHEN PEOPLE SEE THE KIND OF CAMPAIGN AND SEE WHAT SHE HAD TO ENDURE AND SEE A LOSS THEY MIGHT STEP BACK AND SAY I'M NOT GOING FOR THIS.

THE EVIDENCE SUGGESTS THAT WHEN WOMEN PERCEIVE THERE IS SEXISM AND DISCRIMINATION THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO THROW THEIR HATS INTO THE RIPPING AND THE NARRATIVE WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT CRAFTING A NARRATIVE THAT IS ENCOURAGING YOUNG WOMEN TO KEEP FIGHTING THE FIGHT AND NOT BE DISCOURAGED BY THE LOSS.

>> THAT IS INTERESTING.

I WROTE SOMETHING ABOUT ELECTION AVERSION SEEMS TO BE A GIRL THING THAT WOMEN AND THAT IS WHY I THINK THERE COULD BE A BACKLASH EFFECT.

WOMEN IN PARTICULAR ARE TURNED OFF BY THE 24/7 NEWS COVERAGE AND THERE'S SO MUCH NOISE AND THAT YOU CANNOT HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ISSUES.

AND THERE WAS ONE REAL DOWNSIDE TO THIS CAMPAIGN THERE WAS A LACK OF TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES.

SO I DO WORRY IF WE LOOK BACK OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS WE MAY SEE A BACKLASH EFFECT FOR WOMEN.

>> DID SHE GET TOO NEGATIVE TOWARDS THE END?

I'M TALKING IN TERMS HOW LITTLE GIRLS WILL LOOK AT THIS.

IT WAS THE MOST NASTY GUTTER LIKE ELECTION I'VE SEEN.

AND READING HISTORY SINCE 1884 WHICH WAS A HECK OF A LONGTIME AGO AND I WONDER, IS THIS THE KIND OF THING THAT WILL INSPIRE AND IT WASN'T HER FAULT.

BUT SHE CERTAINLY REACTED.

DONALD TRUMP WAS CLEARLY -- TO BLAME FOR IT.

>> IT WAS IN PART HER FAULT, TOO.

BOTH SIDES WERE NASTY AND WE KNOW THAT THEY PAID.

>> OWE STARTED OUT NOT NASTY.

COME ON.

I MEAN WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT HIM HE TOOK HIS ELECTION THIS RACE INTO THE GUTTER.

>> HE DID IN THE PRIMARIES.

>> AND HE DID DURING THE GENERAL.

>> AND SHE INTENDED TO MAKE IT ABOUT HIM AND SHE WENT ON THE OFFENSE VERY EARLY ON.

BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO BE ABOUT HIS CHARACTER.

>> SHE DID GO NEGATIVE.

>> SHE COULD NOT HELP BUT GO NEGATIVE ALL THAT AMMUNITION ON THE TABLE AGAINST WOMEN AND IMMIGRANTS.

>> SHE WAS NOT A SAINT.

>> NO CANDIDATE WOULD HAVE LEFT THAT ON THE TABLE OR HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.

>> LET'S LET LITTLE BOYS AND GIRLS UNDERSTAND THE REALITY OF POLITICS.

>> IT WAS HE ACOMING FROM HERE -- IT WASN'T COMING FROM HER.

>> TRUE.

>> AND OR TAPE WAS RELEASED OF HER SAYING I WILL GRAB HIM BY HIS YOU KNOW WHAT?

>> SHE DID CHOOSE TO MAKE THAT A CENTERPIECE OF HER AD CAMPAIGN AND GOOD NEWS IS IT DID NOT WORK.

>> THAT IS NOT GOOD NEWS.

WE JUST WENT THROUGH A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WHERE BEING A SEXIST, A RACIST AND ILSAMOPHOBE WAS NOT DISQUALIFYING AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

YOU CAN BEHAVE HOWEVER YOU WANT AND ACT THE WAY YOU WOULD ACT ON A PLAYGROUND AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> AND THE REAL STORY IS HE IS NOT A SEXIST OR A RACIST BECAUSE HE HAS GIVEN WOMEN OPPORTUNITIES MORE THAN ANYBODY IN HIS -- >> WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF THAT.

>> WE ABSOLUTELY DO HAVE EVIDENCE BUT WE DO.

>> I THINK IT'S TEMPTING TO SORT OF FOCUS ON THIS ELECTION AND SOMETHING THAT IS INTERESTING TO POINT OUT I THINK FOR A LOT OF WOMEN RIGHT BEFORE THE DISCUSSION THIS WAS A SIGNIFICANT MILESTONE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED WATCHING THIS OVER DECADES AND THE IDEA THAT YOU WOULD SEE A WOMAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE MEANT A LOT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD NOT BRUSH AWAY AND CONSERVATIVES MAY BE MORE WILLING TO DO THAT.

BUT I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMIND THOSE LITTLE GIRLS AND BOYS ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT WOMEN ARE DOING.

AND I THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT THIS ON ELECTION DAY.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE ROLE MODELS THAT MY CHILDREN HAVE I THINK OF ONE MOM A GENETIC RESEARCHER AND MY OLDEST DAUGHTER MET AN OLYMPIC FENCER AND JUDGES AND LAWYERS AND DOCTORS AND SURGEONS AND CHEFS AND SO MANY THINGS AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DO NOT PUT TOO MUCH WEIGHT ON THIS ONE THING WHICH IS IMPORTANT BUT THAT WE DON'T IGNORE ALL OF THE OTHER ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON ARE THE DEMOCRATS GOING TO IN 2020, ARE THE DEMOCRATS GOING TO CONSIDER ARE THEY GOING TO RUN A WOMAN WHO MIGHT POSSIBLY WIN THIS TIME?

OR SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, FORGET IT.

THE MOST QUALIFIED WOMAN WE HAD DID NOT DO IT.

>> WOMEN HAVE A REAL BASE OF WOMEN TO CHOOSE FROM.

BUT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE WITH TRUMP IN POWER BUNCHES OF MEN AND WOMEN WANTING TO RUN IN 2020.

>> BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT WHY WHITE WOMEN DID SUPPORT HIM.

CONTRARY TO WHAT THE POLLS SAID THEY WERE NOT GOING TO.

AND IT WAS NOT JUST THE UNEDUCATED WHITE WOMEN, THE DISMISSIVE ATTITUDE OF THE DEMOCRATS AND THE MEDIA ACTING LIKE ANYBODY WITH A BRAIN THAT IS A WOMAN WOULD NOT SUPPORT HIM.

THEY LOOKED PAST IT AND SAW THE POLICIES AND A MAN KNOWS HOW TO CREATE JOBS AND TURNED HIS LIFE AROUND WHEN HE HAS HAD FAILURES AND A MAN THAT CAN GET THINGS DONE AND THAT HAS BEEN HIS RECORD.

SHE DID NOT HAVE THAT RECORD.

THAT IS IN LARGE PART JOBS AND HOPE FOR THE FUTURE WAS A BIG PART OF WHY A LOT OF THE WOMEN WENT FOR HIM.

>> I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT SO MANY WOMEN WERE ABLE TO LOOK BEYOND HIS STATEMENTS.

NOT EVERYONE WAS ABLE TO.

BUT CERTAINLY IT SUGGESTS THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE FALLING THROUGH THE CRACKS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HURTING AND LOOKING FOR CHANGE.

I'M NOT SURE IF THEY ARE GOING TO GET THE CHANGE THAT THEY DESERVE OR NOT.

>> WHAT IS THE BUSINESS ABOUT LOOKING BEYOND HIS STATEMENTS?

EXCUSE ME?

SINCE WHEN HAS ANYBODY RUN FOR ANYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO NOT BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE SAYING, BUT LOOK BEYOND WHAT THEY ARE SAYING AND SOMEHOW THINK THAT THEY ARE NOT AT ALL WHO THEY ARE PORTRAYING THEMSELVES TO BE?

>> LOOK AT ELLIS PAUL SAID DEEDS NOT WORDS.

THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO SHOW THROUGH ACTION WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO.

HIS LIFE HE SHOWED WHAT HE IS ABLE TO DO.

SO THEREFORE, YES, HIS WORDS WERE BAD BUT LUCKILY THEY PUT ON THEIR BIG GIRL PANTS AND DECIDED NO WE WILL LOOK AT WHAT HIS RECORD HE HAS BEEN A MAN OF ACCOMPLISH.

AND WE THINK HE WILL CREATE THE JOBS AND TURN THE ECONOMY AROUND.

>> I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED ON ELECTION DAY.

I ALSO THINK IT'S A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS WHEN WE'VE REACHED A POINT IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT HE SAID ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ARE ACCEPTABLE OR ARE AT LEAST TOLERATED BY A LARGE CHUNK OF THE POPULATION.

>> WHAT ABOUT HIS RECORD?

>> THERE IS NO POLITICAL RECORD.

>> WHAT ABOUT HIS BUSINESS RECORD?

>> WELL, THAT WAS VERY MUCH IN DISPUTE.

HE HAD THE BANKRUPTCIES.

AND BUSINESS RECORD.

YOU BETTER BE PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT THE RECORD.

>> LOOK AT ATLANTIC CITY.

IF THAT IS WHAT -- >> DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ATLANTIC CITY.

THE PROMISES MADE BY THE DEMOCRATS IN ATLANTIC CITY THEY DID NOT COME THROUGH FOR THE CASINO OWNERS.

EVERYBODY FAILED THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY WENT DOWN.

HE WAS OUT OF THE INDUSTRY BEFORE THE FAILURE.

HIS NAME WAS ATTACHED BUT HE WAS OUT OF IT.

>> WHAT THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORTED ABOUT HIM STIFFING CONTRACTORS THE SAME WHITE WOMEN AND WHITE MEN WHO THE CARPENTERS AND THE SUBCONTRACTORS HE HIMSELF SAID WHAT HE DID WAS HE GOT HUGE LOANS FOR PROJECTS.

HE DECLARED BANKRUPTCY AND STIFFED A TON OF PEOPLE.

AND THIS IS HOW HE BECAME A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN.

HE SAID IT HIMSELF.

>> NO, HE DID NOT.

>> THAT IS NOT WHAT MOST SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS PEOPLE DO IN AMERICA.

>> I'M SORRY.

WHEN DID BANKRUPTCY WHEN IT IS A CHAPTER 11 REORGANIZATION BECOME A HAIN NOWS THING.

BANKRUPTCY IS THERE TO TURN THINGS AROUND.

MORE VENDORS GOT PAID BY HIM DECLARING CHAPTER 11 OR GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.

ALL OF THIS, THE NARRATIVE ABOUT HIS BUSINESSES HAS BEEN SO DISTORTED AND MISS PORTRAYED AND HOPEFULLY THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT WHEN THERE IS NOT AN AGENDA.

>> IT'S MUCH MORE UNDERSTANDABLE WHY WHITE MEN WORKING CLASS MEN WENT FOR TRUMP THAN WHITE WORKING CLASS WOMEN AND SHAME ON THEM OR WHITE WOMEN BECAUSE IT IS NOT WORKING CLASS WOMEN.

THE REASON IT'S MORE ACCEPTABLE IS THAT THE WHITE MEN WERE PROMISED I WILL GIVE YOU THE AMERICA OF THE 1950s.

THAT IS TO SAY THAT EVERYBODIALITY THIS TABLE KNOWS THAT MANUFACTURING JOBS IN STEEL AND THE OTHER MANUFACTURING.

>> COAL.

>> CANNOT POSSIBLY PARTICULARLY COAL CANNOT POSSIBLY COME BACK.

MOVING OFFSHORE TO WHERE THEY HAVE MOVED OFFSHORE TO.

THAT IS THE KIND OF PROMISE THAT IS GOING TO BE REVEALED AS A FRAUD VERY EARLY ON.

BUT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE MEN WHO WILL NEVER HAVE JOBS LIKE THAT.

AND THE WOMEN CAN ONLY BE EXCUSED IF YOU SAY WELL, THEY WERE MARRIED TO THE MEN AND THEREFORE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED SOME OF THIS ECONOMIC DESPAIR AS WELL.

>> I TEND TO AGREE WITH THAT AND I THINK THOUGH THAT ON HILLARY CLINTON, AND I WOULD BE CURIOUS JENNIFER HAS DONE MUCH MORE RESEARCH ON THIS, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS PARTICULAR ELECTION WAS SO NASTY AND I KNOW MOST HIGH PROFILE, I FEEL OPTIMISTIC ABOUT WOMEN'S POTENTIAL OPPORTUNITIES IN THE POLITICAL FIELD.

BECAUSE MOST RACES ARE NOT LIKE THIS.

MOST RACES ARE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL AND PEOPLE ARE OPEN.

>> SO IT'S TRUE.

DANNY HAYES AND I WROTE A BOOK CALLED WOMEN ON THE RUN AND LOOKED AT EVERY CONGRESSIONAL ELECTION IN 2010 AND 2014 AND WE FOUND THAT WHEN WOMEN RUN FOR OFFICE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE THEY ARE JUST AS LIKELY TO WIN THEY RAISE SIMILAR AMOUNTS OF MONEY AND THE HOUSE LEVEL THE MEDIA COVERAGE LOOKS SIMILAR.

HOWEVER NO ONE KNOWS THAT AND THAT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE JUDGE THE POLITICAL TERRAIN AND WE FOUND IN THE SURVEY THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE ASKED DO YOU THINK WOMEN CAN WIN ELECTIONS AND RAISE MONEY AND THE MEDIA TREAT WOMEN FAIRLY FAIRLY?

THOSE VIEWS THAT THEIR PUBLIC OPINION IS SHAPED ENTIRELY BY WHAT THEY SEE AT THE PRESIDENTIAL LEVEL.

AND PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THAT SARA PALIN OR HILLARY CLINTON WERE NOT TREATED WELL ASSUMED THAT THAT TRICKLES DOWN AND THAT IS WHY I'M DISCOURAGED ABOUT THE DISCOURSE THAT WE SAW AND SEXISM ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

>> WHAT ABOUT SECRETARY CLINTON?

SHE WAS A FLAWED CANDIDATE.

WILL HISTORY SAY THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE RUN OR SHOULD HAVE STEPPED ASIDE AND LET SOMEBODY LIKE KRISTEN GILLIBRAND RUN WHO DID NOT HAVE THE MOUNTAINS OF BAGGAGE.

>> MORE EXPERIENCE THAN ANY CANDIDATE HAD MORE QUALIFIED THAN ANY CANDIDATE.

SO THERE IS A TRADE-OFF.

>> THE CLINTOWN FOUNDATION ALL THE TIES TO DONATIONS FROM THE SAUDIS.

>> BUT THERE ARE TRADE OFFS INVOLVED.

NO ONE CANDIDATE IS EVER GOING TO BE PERFECT AND I THINK HILLARY CLINTON'S EMERGENCE AS A CANDIDATE SHE WAS AMAZING.

YES THERE WERE DOWNSIDES.

BUT ANY OF THE OTHER WOMEN THAT WE'RE NAMING OR CANDIDATES THAT WE ARE THINKING ABOUT HAVE DIFFERENT DOWNSIDES.

AND IT'S NOT FAIR TO HOLD A FEMALE CANDIDATE TO THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO HAVE CHECK MARKS IN THE PLUS COLUMN AND NONE IN THE MINUS.

>> 4-1 LET ME STEP IN AND DEFEND DONALD TRUMP.

>> TWO REPUBLICANS AND TWO DEMOCRATS.

>> IT'S STILL FOUR TO ONE AND THE BOTTOM LINE WITH TRUMP I HOPE NOW THAT THE TRUE NARRATIVE WILL COME FORWARD THEY DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE SUCCESSES AND THE FACT THAT HE HIRES MORE WOMEN THAN MEN AS EXECUTIVES AND PAYS THEM EQUALLY AND HILLARY DID NOT HAVE A HISTORY OF EQUAL PAY IN HER ENTERPRISED EXCEPT FOR HER CAMPAIGN.

SHE PAID THEM 28% LESS IN THE SENATE AND 38% LESS ON THE FOUNDATION STAFF.

HE HAS A RECORD OF SHOWING TRUE RESPECT BY WHAT HE DOES FOR THE WOMEN THAT WORK FOR HIM.

AND THAT -- >> WE'LL GET TO THIS.

BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF HE STAYS WITH THAT.

>> GOOD.

>> AND WITH THE APPOINTMENTS IN THE ADMINISTRATION.

>> AND IT ALL FOCUSED ON JUST THE CASINO BUSINESS WHERE THERE WERE BANKRUPTCIES NONE OF THE OTHER BUSINESSES WERE.

IT IS JUST A REAL DISTORTION.

AND YES -- >> I JUST WANT TO QUOTE.

AND SAID, YES THAT IS HOW I MADE MONEY.

I BORROWED HUGE AMOUNTS FOOTNOTE PROBABLY MORE THAN HE KNEW THE PROPERTIES WERE WORTH BUT WHAT HE WAS ABLE TO GET AWAY WITH BORROWING AND DECLARED BANKRUPTCY.

FOOTNOTE AND STIFFED A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> THAT INDUSTRY AT THE TIME AS YOU KNOW HE WAS A CLIENT OF MINE.

ALWAYS TREATED RESPECTFULLY ALWAYS PAID HIS BILLS 100% ON TIME WITH EVERYBODY THAT WE DEALT WITH.

>> PEOPLE ARE COMPLICATED NOBODY IS ALL GOOD OR ALL BAD.

>> ONE INDUSTRY THAT WAS A PROBLEM.

>> ONE THING THAT WE ALL SAW -- >> WE GOT TO GET OUT.

WE HAVE LITTLE TIME FOR THE NEXT SEGMENT.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FROM THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CLINTON'S RUN TO WOMEN VOTERS.

PRESIDENT ELECT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS FAMILY TO VISITED THE WHITE HOUSE LATE THIS WEEK TO LAUNCH WHAT MANY HOPED WOULD BE A PEACEFUL TRANSITION.

BUT THE STREETS IN CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY WERE FILLED WITH ANGRY ANTI-TRUMP PROTESTORS.

AND POLLSTERS ARE WONDERING HOW THEY GOT IT WRONG, BY, A-NOT PREDICTING A TRUMP VICTORY OR B- THAT WHITE WOMEN ESPECIALLY WOULD NOT SUPPORT HILLARY CLINTON TO BECOME THE FIRST FEMALE U.S. PRESIDENT.

CLINTON DID WIN WOMEN OVERALL.

BUT 53 PERCENT OF WHITE WOMEN VOTED FOR TRUMP, ESPECIALLY THOSE WITHOUT COLLEGE DEGREES.

PAGE GARDNER OF THE VOTER PARTICIPATION PROJECT.

>> THESE WOMEN ARE STRUGGLING.

THEY HAVE STRUGGLED FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME.

THEY DON'T WANNA GO BACK TO THE DAYS OF BLATANT SEX DISCRIMINATION, BUT THEY DO WANT CHANGE.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HAVING HEARD THAT LANGUAGE LIKE THAT, WHICH ALL OF US HAVE, AND ACCEPTING LANGUAGE LIKE THAT, WHICH MANY OF US DON'T.

BUT EVEN IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT IT, THEY KNEW THAT ABOUT HIM, AND THEY GOT BEYOND IT BECAUSE THERE WERE OTHER MORE PRESSING MATTERS TO THEM, IN TERMS OF THEIR LIVES THAT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF SORT OF THE CONFLICT, I THINK, IN TERMS OF THE CHOICES THAT THESE WOMEN FACE.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, I JUST DON'T THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, HER MESSAG REALLY BROKE THROUGH TO THEM IN A WAY THAT IT NEEDED TO.

>> THIS LED THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS TO SUGGEST AMERICA SHOULD BLAME WHITE WOMEN FOR CLINTON'S LOSS.

51% OF WHITE WOMEN WITH COLLEGE DEGREES, 94- PERCENT OF BLACK WOMEN AND 68 PERCENT OF LATINAS CHOSE CLINTON, WHO DID WIN THE POPULAR VOTE.

SOME DOUBT LESS EDUCATED WHITE WOMEN COULD BE PULLED INTO THE DEMOCRATIC FOLD BUT GARDNER DISAGREES.

>> IF DEMOCRATS HAVE A STRONG ECONOMIC MESSAGE AND A STRONG MESSAGE THAT IS INCLUSIVE THEY CAN GET THESE WOMEN, WOMEN OF COLOR WORKING CLASS WOMEN, THESE WOMEN WANT TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES AND TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES AND THEY WANT AN AMERICA THEY CAN BELIEVE IN.

BRIEF RESPONSES BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE MUCH TIME.

I WANT TO GET EACH OF YOU IN IN A MINUTE.

THE DEMOCRATS BELIEVE THEY COULD PULL THE WOMEN IN WITH MESSAGES ABOUT JOBS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, HIS FLAGSHIP ISSUE WAS IMMIGRATION.

AND THESE WERE WHITE WOMEN AND MEN WHO VOTED FOR HIM.

ISN'T THERE -- IMMIGRATION WAS HIS MAIN PULL, YES OR NO?

>> IMMIGRATION LAUNCHED THE CAMPAIGN BUT IT WAS NOT THE MAIN PULL.

IT WAS ABOUT HIM BEING A JOB CREATOR.

AND YOU HEARD THAT ECHOED BACK FROM THE WOMEN.

AND THEY WOULD TALK ABOUT IT THEY BELIEVE THAT HE WAS THE GUY THAT COULD GET THE JOBS NOT ONLY FOR THEM AND THEIR HUSBANDS BUT FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

>> BRIEFLY?

>> WELL, THE ECONOMIC MESSAGE IS INTERESTING BECAUSE HE BORROWED MUCH OF THAT MESSAGE FROM THE DEMOCRATS.

HE IS TALKING INFRASTRUCTURE AND SPENDING MONEY JUST TRY THAT OUT ON MY COLLEAGUES IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

>> ONLY INITIALLY.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL IT'S INTERESTING AFTER SHE WAS NOMINATED THERE WAS NOT THAT MUCH ENTHUSIASM AROUND HILLARY CLINTON I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING MUCH MORE ENTHUSIASM IN THE AFTERMATH NOW.

AND I THOUGHT MAYBE IT HAD TO DO A LITTLE BIT WITH A MESSAGE THAT DID NOT RESONATE OUT OF DATE RIGHT THAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT SHATTERING THE GLASS CEILING AND IT FELT FREE TO BE YOU AND ME WHEN WOMEN ARE DOING THINGS I'M WONDERING IF PEOPLE JUST IGNORED THAT AND FOCUSED ON THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIPS.

>> I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY THIS ELECTION DID NOT LOOK DIFFERENT THAN A LOT OF ELECTIONS.

EVERY PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION SINCE 1980 WOMEN HAVE BEEN MORE LIKELY TO GO FOR THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE AND WE SAW THAT.

AND THE GENDER GAP WAS LARGER THAN IN THE PREVIOUS TWO ELECTIONS IT WAS NOT THE SIZE THAT WE EXPECTED IT TO BE.

IN PART BECAUSE OF THAT ECONOMIC MESSAGE ESPECIALLY IN THE RUST BELT AND IN PART BECAUSE THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN IN TERMS OF REACHING THE OBAMA COALITION TURNED THEM OUT AT A LITTLE BIT LOWER LEVELS OF SUPPORT AND ALSO WITH A LITTLE BIT LOWER IN TERMS OF THEIR ACTUAL NUMBERS.

ALL OF THOSE FACTORS TOGETHER LED TO A RECIPE FOR A TRUMP WIN.

>> MOVING FORWARD ARE WE GOING TO SEE 50% WOMEN APPOINTED?

DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE A CHANCE OF GET TO GO?

>> I THINK THE WILLINGNESS IS THERE.

WE'LL SEE.

AS I'VE SAID BEFORE IVANKA IS GOING TO BE AN ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN AND SHE HAS DEFINITE IDEAS SHE WANTS TO HELP HER FATHER PUT IN PLAY.

>> HE NEEDS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH AS MANY WOMEN AS HE CAN FIND GIVEN THE CAMPAIGN HE RAN.

>> I MEAN I THINK THERE WILL BE A LOT OF REBUILDING AND IT'S POSSIBLE THAT REPUBLICANS MADE A BIG DIFFERENCE DURING THE MIDTERM AND THIS IS GOING TO BE -- >> IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF THIS IS THE FIRST NET SETBACK THAT WE SEE IN TERMS OF WOMEN IN THE CABINET.

>> AND SUPREME COURT APPOINTMENT?

ARE WOMEN GOING TO LOSE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE?

HE HAS PROMISE THAT THEY WILL.

>> THEY HAVE TO HAVE THREE APPOINTMENTS BEFORE THAT WOULD BE THE CASE.

YOU HAVE A 6-3 COURT RIGHT NOW.

>> IT'S 5-4 WITH KENNEDY BEING THE SUPREME COURT.

IN ANY EVENT WE'LL GET TO THAT NEXT WEEK.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY PLEASE JOIN US NEXT TIME.

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