>> Cathy: THAT WAS A TIME WHEN PEOPLE WOULD STOP AND WATCH THE LOCAL 6 AND 10:00 P.M. NEW SHOWS.

WHAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WAS THERE WERE PITCHED BATTLES THE BEHIND THE SCENES WHERE A LOT OF MONEY WAS SPENT TO GET YOU TO WATCH KSTP, WCCO, WTCN OR KMSP.

YOU CAN EXPERIENCE WHAT IS THE FASCINATING HISTORY OF TWIN CITIES TV NEWS DURING A NEW DOCUMENTARY, BROADCAST WARS I GOT, THIS COMING TUESDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 P.M. ON TWIN CITIES PBS.

>> THERE WAS A TIME WHEN PEOPLE WOULD STOP WHAT THEY WERE DOING TO WATCH THE EVENING NEWS.

>> THE LOCAL NEWS WAS EVERYTHING.

>> THE MORAL HIGH GROUND DOESN'T MAKE THEM ANY MONEY UNLESS IT MAKES YOU NUMBER ONE.

>> WE WERE REMINDED OF RATINGS ALL THE TIME.

>> IT'S JUST SHOW BIZ.

>> IT WAS CUTTHROAT, SERIOUSLY.

>> TOO PERSONAL TO MAKE SENSE.

>> THEY MIGHT NOT LIKE WHAT THEY'RE SEEING, BUT THEY'RE WATCHING.

>> WELL, THANK YOU.

YOU SON OF A ... [ DRAMATIC MUSIC ] >> Eric: ONE OF THE STARS OF THE DOCUMENTARY IS LEGENDARY KSTP POLITICAL REPORTER AND ANCHOR MARCIA FLUER.

CATHY WAS COPRODUCER ON THE FILM SO I TURN THE TABLES AND ASK THEM BOTH QUESTIONS.

>> Cathy: OH, NO.

>> Eric: WHAT LED YOU TO THIS SUBJECT MATTER?

>> Cathy: EARLY IN MY CAREER I WORKED WITH VETERAN BROADCASTERS WHO WERE BIG DEALS IN TWIN CITIES TV NEWS, AND THEY TOLD GREAT STORIES, THEY TELL ABOUT THIS INCREDIBLE TIME OF CHANGE TO THE '60S UNTIL ABOUT THE MID-'80S, TONS OF NEW TECHNOLOGY, MORE NEWS GATHERING, MORE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND MORE WOMEN ENTERING NEWS ROOMS AT THAT POINT.

>> Eric: WERE YOU ONE OF THE FIRST WOMEN TO ANCHOR?

>> YES, I WAS >> Eric: DID YOU FACE SEXISM?

>> OH, MY GOSH, DID I EVER.

THEY ONLY LET THE BOYS DO THE MORNING CUT-IN INS, BUT I ANNANNOYENOUGH, HE SAID NOBODY O DO IT, SO YOU CAN DO IT ON MONDAY BUT WE'LL BOTH BE GONE ON TUESDAY.

MONDAY I SHOWED UP AT 4:30 AND DID ALL THE WRITING AND THINGS THAT THE ANCHOR DID.

HE CALLED ME AFTERWARDS AT THE OFFICE AND I WAS TERRIFIED BECAUSE I REALLY NEEDED A JOB.

I SAID AM I FIRED?

AND HE SAID, NO, AS A MATTER OF FACT STANLEY HUBBARD CALLED DOWN AND ON OFB LOVED YOU AND WANTS YOU TO DO T FOREVER.

>> Eric: WHAT ROLE DID BROADCAST CONSULTANTS HAVE IN THE CAREERS OF YOU AND OTHERS?

>> WELL, I REALIZED VERY EARLY ON THAT I WAS BEING TESTED IN THE MARKETPLACE.

AND ONE OF THE FIVE NEWS DIRECTORS THAT I WORKED FOR SLIPPED AND TOLD ME THAT NOBODY DOESN'T LIKE SARAH LEE AND NOBODY DOESN'T LIKE MARCIA FLUER.

>> Cathy: AHH.

>> SO I KNEW I HAD A JOB FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER WEEK.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Eric: YEAH.

>> Cathy: JUST GLASS SHARDS -- >> I DO, FROM BREAKING SO MANY CEILINGS.

I HAD A NEWS DIRECTOR WHO KEPT GIVING ME THESE ASSIGNMENTS ABOUT THE FIRST WOMAN PILOT, THE FIRST WOMAN -- WASHER AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

AND FINALLY I SAID IF I WEREN'T HERE WOULD SOMEBODY BE DOING THIS STORY?

AND HE SAID NO, AND I SAID, WELL, WHY DO I WANT TO DO IT?

NO THE NEXT THING I KNEW HE WENT TO A STORY THAT WAS PUT ON BY ALL WOMEN AND THEY SAID WHERE'S YOUR WOMAN REPORTER?

AND HE SAID SHE'S DOING REAL NEWS.

>> Cathy: GOOD.

>> Eric: OH!

WHEN YOU LOOK BACK DOWN THAT ERA, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT IMMEDIATELY COMES TO MIND, ARE YOU GOOD, AD, OR UGLY?

>> IT DEPENDS ON THE DAY.

I WORKED FOR SOME REALLY GOOD PEOPLE.

I ALSO WORKED FOR SOME REALLY TERRIBLE PEOPLE.

AND IT WAS HARD GETTING STARTED IN SOMETHING I HAD NO BUSINESS DOING.

TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I WAS DOING AN EXIT INTERVIEW ABOUT OUR OLD SINGING GROUP AND A FLOORMAN SAID TO ME, KSTP'S LOOKING FOR A NEW TOKEN WOMAN AND I THINK YOU WOULD BE -- >> Eric: YOU'RE THE TOKEN.

>> YOU BET.

>> Cathy: ERIC ASKED ABOUT CONSULTANTS AND I WONDER, DO YOU THINK CONSULTANTS, DID THEY RUIN TV NEWS, DID THEY HELP TV NEWS?

WHAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE FOR YOU?

IS >> THEY DIDN'T DO IT ANY GOOD, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.

BECAUSE THEY TOLD PEOPLE -- PEOPLE WERE ASKING WHAT THEY WANTED TO SEE AND THEN WE STOPPED TELLING THEM WHAT THEY NEEDED TO KNOW AND THAT IS WHERE I THINK THE LINE WAS DRAWN WITH CONSULTANTS.

THAT'S WHERE TV NEWS HAS FALLEN SHORT.

>> Cathy: AND OF COURSE CONSULTANTS STEPPED IN AT WCC TV IN THE LATE '60S WHEN EKSTP WAS NUMBER ONE FOR DECADES AND OF COURSE THE OWNERS OF W CCO TV SAID WE'RE GETTING KICKED AROUND HERE AND BROUGHT IN MCEW AND HOFFMAN AND LET'S TRY SOMETHING, WHAT IF WE MADE DAVE CHAT WITH BUD AND LOOSEN IT UP A LITTLE BIT AND THAT WAS THE SCENE TONIGHT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Cathy: NUMBER ONE AND TOPPLED KSTP.

SO CONSULTANTS REALLY DID HAVE THEIR FINGERS IN LOCAL TV NEWS FOR CERTAIN.

>> WHEN I STARTED I THINK WE WERE NUMBER FOUR IN A THREE-STATION MARKET.

AND IT DIDN'T TAKE VERY LONG FOR THEM TO FIGURE UT THAT IF THEY KEPT CHANGING THINGS OX ENOUGH THEY WERE GOING TO COME UP WITH THE RIGHT RECIPE AND THE RIGHT RECIPE WAS RON MAJORS AS THE MAJOR ANCHOR.

AND WITHIN A YEAR AND A HALF TO TWO YEARS, WE WERE NOT ONLY NUMBER ONE, BUT WE HAD A 52 SHARE OF THE MARKET.

>> Eric: WHICH IS HUMONGOUS.

>> ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE.

IT WAS A PRINTING PRESS FOR MONEY.

>> Eric: HOW MUCH OF THE RATINGS PRESSURE FELL FROM THE SALES TEAM AND MANAGEMENT DOWN TO THE REPORTERS?

>> WE NEVER DEALT WITH THE SALES TEAM BUT BELIEVE ME, THE PRESSURE WAS TO BE ON.

>> Eric: HOW DID THAT MANIFEST ITSELF?

>> WELL, THERE WERE MEETINGS.

I MEAN, REAL HONEST MEET WHERE'S STANLEY HUBBARD SAID WE'RE GOING TO BE NUMBER ONE.

I'M NOT GOING TO STAY HERE FOREVER.

YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK YOUR FANNIES OFF AND WE'RE GOING O GET THERE OR YOU'RE GONNA BE GONE.

>> Eric: YOU WERE PESSIMISTIC, YOU DID A Q & A WITH CATHY LAST NIGHT AND YOU WERE PRETTY PESSIMISTIC ABOUT JOURNALISM'S FUTURE.

>> IT ISN'T THE FUTURE, IT'S THE PRESENT.

I REALLY THINK THAT I -- WHEN I STARTED, I STARTED IN POLITICS.

THEY PUT ME AT MINNEAPOLIS CITY HALL.

TELL ME WHO'S IN MINNEAPOLIS CITY HALL ANYMORE.

>> Cathy: WELL, THEY MIGHT PICK UP A G.A.

ASSIGNMENT.

>> RIGHT.

IF YOU'VE GOT A CAT ISSUE AND YOU WANT TO PUT YOUR CATS ON A LEASH, THEN YOU'VE GOT A NEWS STORY AND YOU GO TO MINNEAPOLIS CITY HALL.

>> Eric: BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME DO YOU WANT TO PLUG WHEN IT'S ON?

>> Cathy: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT MARCIA JUST SAID ABOUT NEWS.

THE REASON IT WAS SO INTERESTING TO SEE HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF VIDEOTAPE OF ALL THE NEWS CASTS WAS THE QUALITY OF NEWS.

NEWS MATTERED AT THAT TIME AND THE QUALITY OF JOURNALISM IN THIS MARKET WAS REALLY RIVAL OF ANYTHING IN THE NATION.

>> Eric: HOW CAN WE SEE IT?

>> Cathy: YOU CAN SEE IT LIVE TUESDAY 7:00 P.M. ON TPT, AND YOU CAN DOWNLOAD IT ON THE PBS APP.

>> Eric: I DID PRETTY GOOD SOLO INTERVIEWER.

>> Cathy: NOT BAD.

>> AND YOU CAN COME TO MY HOUSE AND I'M GOING TO RUN IT CONTINUOUSLY IN A LOOP FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

>> Eric: MARCIA FLUER, EVERYBODY!

>> Cathy: PIONEER.

THANK YOU.