"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

♪♪♪ >> Mary: ON THE AFTERNOON OF TUESDAY, APRIL 20th, HISTORY WAS MADE IN MINNESOTA.

FOR THE FIRST TIME, A WHITE POLICE OFFICER WAS CONVICTED OF KILLING A BLACK MAN.

I'M MARY LAHAMMER.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR A SPECIAL EDITION OF "ALMANAC."

>> FRED: AND I'M FRED DE SAM LAZARO.

FOR THE NEXT HOUR, WE WILL EXAMINE THE THREE-WEEK TRIAL, SEE HOW THE COMMUNITY IS REACTING, LEARN ABOUT TALKING TO CHILDREN ABOUT THE CASE, AND LOOK AT CAMERAS IN THE STATE'S COURTROOMS.

>> MARY: BUT FIRST, AS THE VERDICT WAS ANNOUNCED, WE CAPTURED THE MOMENT OUTSIDE OF THE HENNEPIN COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER, THE SITE OF THE THREE-WEEK TRIAL.

MOMENTS AFTER 4:00 P.M., JUDGE CAHILL READ THE VERDICT.

THE CROWD GATHERED IN SUPPORT OF GEORGE FLOYD, HIS FAMILY AND POLICE REFORM, BURST INTO CHEERS.

"ALMANAC" REPORTER KAOMI LEE AND VIDEOGRAPHER SCOTT TROTMAN WERE THERE.

>> WE THE JURY IN THE ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER AS TO COUNT ONE, UNINTENTIONAL SOAKED DEGREE MURDER WHILE COMMITTING A FELONY, FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

SAME CAMPS, VERDICT, COUNT TWO, THIRD DEGREE MURDER, PERPETRATING AN IMPLEMENTLY DANGEROUS ACT, FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

YEAR-OLD COUNT THREE, WE THE JURY IN THE ABOVE ENTITLED MATTER AS TO COUNT THREE, SECOND DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER, CULPABLE VIOLENCE, CREATING AN UNREASONABLE RISK, FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

[CROWD SHOUTING] [CROWD CHANTING] >> ALL THREE COUNTS.

ALL THREE COUNTS.

[PEOPLE CRYING] >> THEY'RE OUT HERE FOR...

IT'S JUST SO GOOD!

>> I REALLY CAN'T PUT INTO WORDS.

IT MEANS A LOT.

I'M HAPPY THIS HAPPENED.

HOPEFULLY IT'S THE CATALYST FOR CHANGE.

>> I I WAS PREPARED FOR THE WORSE AND HOPING FOR THE BEST.

I WAS HERE FOR OTHER VERDICTS, AS WELL, SO I DIDN'T EXPECT IT BUT I'M SO GRATEFUL.

I JUST NEED TO... [INDISCERNIBLE] [PEOPLE TALKING.

>> HOW PEOPLE THAT REQUIRED -- THAT MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT.

SOME POLICE OFFICERS BEFORE HOW MANY LIVES AND BODIES HAVE BEEN LOST.

>> 470 IS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED AT THE HANDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT SINCE 2000 IN MINNESOTA.

TWO HAVE GOTTEN JUSTICE.

THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

[CROWD SHOUTING] >> MY GOD, I CAN BREATHE.

I CAN BREATHE TODAY.

>> IF IT'S NOT A CHANGE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT A CHANGE IS, RIGHT?

IT'S A START BUT THIS IS NOT THE END, THIS IS NOT -- WE'RE NOT FINISHED.

THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.

>> THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO FALL ASLEEP.

>> NO.

>> THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BE COMFORTABLE AND SAY, OH, WE GOT ONE, LET'S GO HOME.

>> NO, NO, NO.

>> THIS IS THE TIME TO AMP UP, STEP UP, FIGHT HARD, FIGHT FOR THE CHANGES WE NEED SO WE GET REAL PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> WE HAVE SO MUCH WORK TO DO, POLICE REFORM, POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY.

THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.

>> I WANT TO BE PROUD, I WANT TO BE PROUD OF THE WAY THAT WE OPERATE AND IT WAS INTENTIONAL FOR THIS JURY TO GO THE WAY IT DID FOR ME TO HAVE FAITH GOING FORWARD.

>> TODAY WE GOT JUSTICE INSIDE THAT COURTHOUSE.

[CROWD REACTING] >> AND NOW WE ARE WANTING JUSTICE OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE.

>> YES.

>> WE DON'T NEED A COURT SYSTEM TO STOP THE BRUTALITY.

WE NEED POLICY TO HOLD POLICE ACCOUNTABLE.

>> YES.

>> BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ONLY DEREK CHAUVIN IS GUILTY, I WILL REMIND YOU THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT IS GUILTY, AND CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS IS GUILTY.

THE STATE OF MINNESOTA IS GUILTY.

THIS COUNTRY IS GUILTY!

>> GEORGE FLOYD CHANGED THE WORLD BY SHOWING A BLACK MAN IS A HUMAN BEING.

WE ALREADY KNEW THIS.

BUT NOW YOU DO, TOO.

>> MARY: JOINING US AGAIN TONIGHT IS A FAMILIAR FACE TO "ALMANAC" VIEWERS.

MARY MORIARITY IS A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA LAW SCHOOL AND IS A FORMER HENNEPIN COUNTY CHIEF PUBLIC DEFENDER.

SHE'S ALSO BEEN WRITING A BLOG DURING THE TRIAL FOR THE "MINNESOTA SPOKESMAN RECORDER" NEWSPAPER.

MARY, YOU JUST HEARD THE CROWD THERE, ALL THREE COUNTS, ALL THREE COUNTS.

ANY PART OF YOU SURPRISED, ALL THREE COUNTS, GUILTY?

>> NO.

NOT AT ALL.

AFTER HAVING WATCHED THE ENTIRE TRIAL, I THINK IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR THAT THE STATE HAD A REALLY STRONG CASE AND THE DEFENSE WASN'T REALLY ABLE TO CREATE ANY REASONABLE DOUBT.

BUT MANY PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO GUESS WHEN THE VERDICT CAME BACK ON MONDAY, I ACTUALLY GUESSED THEY WOULD COME BACK ON TUESDAY BECAUSE I THOUGHT THEY HAD -- THE STATE HAD SUCH A STRONG CASE.

THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE A LITTLE CONFUSING AND SO I'M SURE IT TOOK SOME TIME FOR THE JURORS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY GOT THE INSTRUCTIONS RIGHT AND I'M SURE THE JURORS ALSO KNEW THE TREMENDOUS IMPORTANCE OF THIS DECISION AND WANTED TO TAKE THE TIME TO GET IT RIGHT.

Fred: ONE OF MY LEGAL FRIENDS TELLS ME THAT IN HIS OPINION, THIS DEFENSE HAD VERY LITTLE TO WORK WITH.

WAS THERE ANYTHING IN YOUR MIND THAT ERIC NELSON COULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY TO AFFECT THE OUTCOME TO SOW THAT IOTA OF DOUBT THAT WAS SO NECESSARY?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THERE WAS ANYTHING HE COULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY, OR THAT WOULD HAVE AFFECTED THE OUTCOME.

I WOULD SAY, I WOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY AND I'M GOING TO MENTION ONE THING IN PARTICULAR, FROM THE OPENING STATEMENT, HE TALKED ABOUT THE BISTANDERS, THE PEOPLE STANDING ON THE CURB AS SOME ANGRY MOB THAT WAS SOMEHOW PREVENTING DERRICK CHAUVIN AND THE OTHER FORMER POLICE OFFICERS FROM, I THINK THEY SAID, CARING FOR GEORGE FLOYD.

THE CROSS EXAMINATION OF DONALD WILLIAMS WAS KIND OF AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE HIM OUT TO BE AN ANGRY BLACK MAN.

AND THERE WERE JUST FROM -- I'M BEING REALLY CANDID, SOME DOG WHISTLES THERE AND I DON'T THINK THAT WORKED AT ALL AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THAT WAS OFFENSIVE TO SOME JURORS BECAUSE THEY GOT TO MEET EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE JUST GOING ABOUT THEIR LIVES.

IT WAS MEMORIAL DAY, THEY WERE FORCED TO WATCH SOMETHING HORRIFIC IN GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH.

THEY DID THE VERY BEST THEY COULD TO TRY TO INTERVENE AND HELP HIM AND WHAT WE HEARD WHEN WE MET THEM WAS THAT THEY SUFFER FROM TRAUMA FOR HAVING WITNESSED THIS, AND ALSO GUILT BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO DO MORE.

BUT FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE TRIAL, I DON'T THINK THE DEFENSE STARTED OFF ON A GOOD FOOT FOR THEM AND CONTINUING THAT THEME ABOUT THIS ANGRY MOB THAT JUST DIDN'T APPLY HERE.

SO THERE WERE CHANGES, THERE WERE THINGS I WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY.

HAVING SAID THAT, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE TO CHANGE THE FINAL OUTCOME.

>> Mary: MARY, YOU MENTIONED THE JURORS AND IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO HEAR WHAT THE JURORS WERE THINKING.

DO WE EXPECT THAT WE WILL ACTUALLY HEAR FROM SOME OF THESE JURORS AT SOME POINT?

>> SO JUDGE CAHILL MADE IT CLEARLY DURING JURY SELECTION THAT HE WAS GOING TO KEEP THEM ANONYMOUS.

THEY WERE ANONYMOUS THROUGHOUT THE TRIAL, WE JUST KNEW THEM AS NUMBERS.

HE IS GOING TO PROTECT THEIR IDENTITY, BY RULE, HE IS SUPPOSED TO -- THE COURT ADMINISTRATOR IS SUPPOSED TO RE -- RELEASE THEIR IDENTITY UNTIL THE JUDGE MAKES A FINDING OR THAT THEY NEED TO BE ANONYMOUS BECAUSE OF SAFETY.

HE ALREADY TOLD THEM THAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE CASE, SO I EXPECT THAT WE WILL SEE AN ORDER FROM HIM KEEPING THEIR NAMES ANONYMOUS.

HE SAID IT WAS UNTIL HE FELT IT WAS SAFE.

IN THE NOOR CASE, THOSE JURORS NAMES WERE KEPT ANONYMOUS FOR AT LEAST 18 MONTHS AND WE DON'T HAVE A NUMBER.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN JUDGE CAHILL WILL RELEASE THEIR NAMES.

>> CAN I JUMP IN?

CAN THEY OPT TO SPEAK.

>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

YES, THEY CAN OPT TO TALK WHEN THEY WANT TO.

SO JURORS, YOU MAY SEE JURORS REACH OUT TO THE MEDIA OR START TALKING ABOUT IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT IS CERTAINLY UP TO THEM, THEY CAN DECIDE WHETHER TO TALK OR WHETHER THEY WANT TO REMAIN QUIET ABOUT IT.

Fred: CAN YOU GIVE US A BRIEF TUTORIAL OF HOW THE SENTENCING WILL WORK, HENCEFORTH, IT WILL BE FOUR WEEKS BEFORE A SENTENCE IS LAID DOWN.

TALK ABOUT THIS WIDE RANGE THAT'S BEEN MENTIONED BETWEEN 40 YEARS AND 12 AND A HALF AND THEN THE AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES.

GIVE US THE CLIFF NOTES ON THAT.

HOW IS THIS GOING TO WORK AND WHAT DO YOU EXPECT IS GOING TO HAPPEN EVENTUALLY?

>> SO, HOW IT WORKS IS THIS.

ALTHOUGH MINNESOTA DOES HAVE CONSECUTIVE SENTENCING IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS, THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

IN FACT, THE JUDGE WILL ONLY SENTENCE CHAUVIN ON THE TOP COUNT, WHICH IS SECOND-DEGREE UNINTENTIONAL MURDER.

WE'RE A SENTENCING GUIDE LINING STATE AND THIS IS CONFUSING BECAUSE PEOPLE SEE THE STATUTE THAT SAYS THE SENTENCE CAN BE UP TO 40 YEARS, BUT REALLY DOESN'T APPLY THAT MUCH.

WHAT REALLY MATTERS ARE THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES AND UNDER THE GUIDELINES, THERE'S A RANGE FROM, I THINK, 128 MONTHS TO 180, AND 150 MONTHS WHICH IS ABOUT 12 AND A HALF YEARS IS THE MIDDLE OF THE BOX.

THE STATE IS ASKING FOR A SENTENCE GREATER THAN THE GUIDELINES CALL FOR, AND THAT IS WHAT YOU'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT, AGGRAVATED FACTOR.

CHAUVIN WAIVED HIS RIGHT TO HAVE A JURY DECIDE WHETHER THERE WERE AGGRAVATING FACTORS SO THE JUDGE IS GOING TO DECIDE THAT.

THERE ARE FIVE QUESTIONS THAT THE JUDGE IS GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE.

HE HAS GIVEN BOTH SIDES AN OPPORTUNITY TO WRITE MEMOS ON WHETHER THOSE FACTORS APPLY, THOSE ARE WITH CHAUVIN IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY BECAUSE HE WAS AN OFFICER, WAS THERE PARTICULAR CRUELTY INFLICTED UPON GEORGE FLOYD, WAS HE PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE.

WERE THERE -- DID CHAUVIN PARTICIPATE WITH THREE OTHER PEOPLE ON THIS AND WERE MINORS PRESENT?

SO THOSE ARE THE FIVE FACTORS, SO THE FIRST PART OF THIS IS GOING TO BE THE LAWYERS HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO CONVINCE THE VAGUE RATING FACTORS EITHER DO OR DON'T APPLY.

>> Mary: MARY, IF I COULD JUMP IN FOR ONE LAST QUESTION BEFORE WE'RE OUT OF TIME, ABOUT THE OTHER THREE, YOU MENTIONED THE OTHER THREE OFFICERS SCHEDULED TO GO TO TRIAL IN AUGUST, IF YOU WERE ADVISING THEM, WOULD YOU ADVISE A PLEA IN LIGHT OF THE VERDICT?

>> WELL, THAT'S KIND OF COMPLICATED BECAUSE IT EXTENDS ON WHETHER THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS GOING TO OFFER A PLEA.

SO WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

THEY CERTAINLY HAVE SOME INCENTIVE NOW JUST TO NOT MUCH THE BYSTANDERS AND OTHER PEOPLE TESTIFY BECAUSE I'M SURE IT WAS TRAUMATIZING.

I WANTED TO SAY QUICKLY, I EXPECT THE SENTENCE TO BE GREATER THAN WHAT NOOR GOT, WHICH WAS 12 AND A HALF YEARS, BUT IT WON'T BE ANYWHERE NEAR 40 YEARS SO PEOPLE'S EXPECTATIONS ARE MANAGED THAT WAY.

>> Mary: ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

Fred: THANK YOU, MARY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> FRED: ON MONDAY, AS THE JURY BEGAN WHAT WOULD BE TEN HOURS OF DELIBERATIONS, TPT WAS IN THE COMMUNITY DOCUMENTING HOW PEOPLE MARKED THE OCCAISION OF THE END OF THE TRIAL.

>> ON MONDAY, THE DAY THE JURY BEGAN DELIBERATIONS, MINNEAPOLIS BRACED FOR A VERDICT WITH BOTH ANXIETY AND RESOLVE.

24 HOURS BEFORE THAT OUTCOME WAS KNOWN, AND ONE DAY BEFORE FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN WAS LED FROM THE COURTROOM IN HANDCUFFS, A HANDFUL OF STUDENTS WALKED OUT OF THEIR CLASSES AT MINNEAPOLIS SOUTH HIGH.

NEARBY, A GROUP OF YOUNG PEOPLE GATHERED AT THE SAY THEIR NAMES MEMORIAL, TO REMEMBER DOZENS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED DURING ENCOUNTERS WITH POLICE.

>> THESE ARE MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENTS FROM LAKE COUNTRY SCHOOL, MONTESSORI SCHOOL ABOUT TEN BLOCKS WEST OF HERE, AND EARLIER IN THE FALL, THEY CAME OUT HERE AND THEY EACH CHOSE AN INDIVIDUAL TO LEARN MORE ABOUT, AND THEY PUT TOGETHER SOME PRESENTATIONS AND TODAY WHEN WE HEARD THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A WALKOUT OF SORTS, WE TRIED TO SCRAMBLE TO ACCOMMODATE STUDENTS WHO MIGHT WANT TO DO SOMETHING, TO BE ADVOCATES, TO TAKE SOME ACTION.

WE STOPPED BY A FLOWER SHOP AND THE STUDENTS CAME BACK AND JUST REVISITED THE INDIVIDUALS THAT THEY DID SOME WORK ON EARLIER THIS YEAR.

ANOTHER WAY TO HONOR WHAT'S GOING ON.

TO SAY YOU'RE NOT IMPACTED IS JUST NOT BEING HONEST, I WOULD SAY.

WE'RE HERE TO FACILITATE THEM PROCESSING THEIR FEELINGS AND WE'RE DOING IT RIGHT ALONGSIDE THEM.

>> THE FEELING AT GEORGE FLOYD SQUARE WAS SOMBER.

PEOPLE QUIETLY PAID THEIR RESPECTS TO THE PLACE WHERE FLOYD TOOK HIS FINAL BREATH.

DURING THE BREAK IN THE TRIAL, THE REVERENDS AL SHARPTON AND JESSIE JACKSON APPEARED ALONGSIDE FLOYD'S FAMILY MEMBERS FOR SUPPORT.

>> WHATEVER WAY THIS VERDICT GOES, WE WON'T STOP UNTIL THE LAW IS CHANGED.

AND THE BEHAVIOR CHANGED.

>> A FEW BLOCKS FROM THE COURTROOM, SCOTT AND HIS SON, SILAS, FOUND A SPOT TO REFLECT.

>> I THINK IT BRINGS OUT -- SOME PEOPLE FLIP US OFF AND OTHER PEOPLE -- WAY MORE PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTIVE AND ENCOURAGING.

[INDISCERNIBLE] A LITTLE PAUSE TO SAY, I DON'T KNOW.

COULD GO THE OTHER WAY SO THEY'RE KIND OF TENTATIVE.

>> YEAH, MY GUT TELLS ME IT WAS EXCESSIVE FORCE.

>> CLOSING ARGUMENTS WITHIN THE HENNEPIN COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER CONTINUED LATE INTO THE AFTERNOON AS THE CASE WRAPPED, THE CROWD OUTSIDE STEADILY GREW.

>> TO SAY NOT IN MY NAME... >> IT WAS HARD NOT TO NOTICE THE LARGE SECURITY PRESENCE AT THE RALLY.

>> THIS IS PEACEFUL.

WE'RE NOT THE ONES WITH GUNS STRAPPED TO OUR CHEST.

THEY EXPECT THINGS -- YOU GOT TO WONDER -- TO ME, IT FEELS LIKE A WAR ZONE.

>> AS THE RALLY CONTINUED, SO DID THE FEELINGS OF HOPEFUL, YET MUTED OPTIMISM.

>> WE NEED JUSTICE, WE NEED TO GET IT TOGETHER.

YOU ALL NEED TO COME TOGETHER IN PEACE AND LOVE.

[INDISCERNIBLE] THANK YOU, JESUS.

GOD BLESS YA, LOVE.

>> MARY: THE FIRST CONVICTION OF A POLICE OFFICER IN THE MURDER OF A BLACK MAN IS SAID BY MANY TO BE A STARTING POINT AND NOT THE FINISH LINE.

AMONG THOSE COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS ASKING FOR CHANGES IN POLICING POLICY IS JAYLANI HUSSEIN, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COUNCIL OF AMERICAN ISLAMIC RELATIONS IN MINNESOTA.

JAYLANI IS JOINING US TONIGHT FROM A COVID-SAFE SPACE A STORY BELOW OUR STUDIOS.

THANK YOU, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS?

WE'RE EXPECTING ACTION IN THE MINNESOTA HOUSE AS SOON AS TONIGHT AND PERHAPS IN THE SENATE NEXT WEEK.

WHAT SPECIFICALLY DO YOU WANT THE MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE TO DO?

>> WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD ON POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY BILLS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SINCE THIS SUMMER AFTER THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD.

WE'VE PROPOSED ABOUT 9 BILLS AND NOW WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE AND THESE BILLS ARE REALLY COMMON SENSE POLICY THAT WILL HOLD POLICE ACCOUNTABLE, INCLUDING QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, INCLUDING NOT SENDING ONLY POLICE TO MENTAL HEALTH RESPONSES, ENDING NO-KNOCK WARRANTS.

AND REALLY JUST FOCUSING ON ACCOUNTABILITY.

YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS -- IN THIS MOMENT RIGHT NOW, THAT IS WHAT COULD BE TRUE JUSTICE FOR US BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BE SEEKING JUSTICE INSIDE THE COURTHOUSE.

SO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HAVE ALREADY HAD MANY OF THESE HEARINGS ON THESE BILLS AND IT'S TIME FOR THEM TO MOVE FORWARD, AND WE'VE ASKED THE GOVERNOR PARTICULARLY AND WE'VE CALLED ON SENATE MAJORITY LEADER GAZELKA TO DO HIS PART.

THEY HAVE -- THE REPUBLICANS HAVE FAILED TO DO ANYTHING.

IN FACT, THEM' ACTUALLY DENIED HEARING ANY OF THESE POLICIES AND SO THIS IS A MOMENT RIGHT NOW FOR THE STATE OF MINNESOTA AS WE ARE CELEBRATING THE VICTORY OF HAVING A GUILTY VERDICT FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN THE HISTORY OF OUR STATE OF A WHITE OFFICER BEING FOUND GUILTY, TO REALLY PASS MEANINGFUL POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY RIGHT NOW, AND IF THE POLICING IN OUR STATE OUR GOOD POLICING, THEY WOULD WITH HIM ACCOUNTABILITY.

UNFORTUNATELY RIGHT NOW, THE POLICE ASSOCIATIONS HAVE ALL BEEN FIGHTING ACCOUNTABILITY WHICH REALLY TELLS US THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.

Fred: JAYLANI, WE'VE BEEN HEARING A LOT ABOUT POLICE REFORM.

THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH SWIRLING AROUND SURROUNDING POLICE COMMUNITY RELATIONS AND I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT METHOD YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEND TO THE -- WHAT MESSAGE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEND TO THE RANK AND FILE, NOT THE LYPE OF THE POLICE, NOT THE UNION LEADERSHIP OF THE POLICE, BUT THE RANK AND FILE, THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY -- THE MEMBERS THE COMMUNITY WILL ACTUALLY INTERFACE WITH IF THEY NEED THEM.

ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT MORE REAL, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH IS REPORTEDLY VERY LOW, STAFFING LEVELS WHICH ARE REPORTEDLY VERY LOW.

TALK ABOUT THOSE EVERYDAY CONCERNS ON THE GROUND IN THE COMMUNITY.

>> FIRST OFF, I WOULD SAY THAT ANY INDUSTRY THAT RUNS AWAY FROM ACCOUNTABILITY IS AN INDUSTRY THAT DOES NOT WANT TO IMPROVE.

SO THE VOICES INSIDE POLICE DEPARTMENTS RIGHT NOW, ACROSS THE STATE, HAVE TO BE LOUD, WELCOMING OPPORTUNITY TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THIS IS AN INDUSTRY THAT, FOR THE LONGEST TIME, HAVE FOUGHT AGAINST ANY [INDISCERNIBLE] OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AT ALL AND SO -- AND FOR THE COMMUNITY, WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO PUT ALL OF THEIR HOPE INTO A VERDICT.

THIS IS A MOMENT RIGHT NOW FOR OUR STATE TO LEAD THE NATION, TO LEAD THE NATION TO SAY, WE ARE GOING TO BE A STATE THAT IS GOING TO TRANSFORMATIVELY CHANGE PUBLIC SAFETY FOR THE BETTER OF OUR COMMUNITY.

SO THAT OUR COMMUNITIES ARE SAFER AND THRIVING.

I THINK DAUNTE WRIGHT'S KILLING IS A GREATEST EXAMPLE THAT WE COULD HAVE -- THE GREATEST LESSON, REGRETFULLY, IN THIS MOMENT TO REALIZE THAT WHILE WE WERE HOPEFUL INSIDE THAT COURTHOUSE, WE REALLY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING TO HOLD POLICE ACCOUNTABLE AND TO CHANGE THAT, AND SO -- >> I JUST -- I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU, JAYLANI, BUT I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE GROUND REALITY OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THAT'S JEOPARDIZED AND THAT'S LOST AMID ALL OF THIS, THAT THE SERVICE THAT PEOPLE NEED FROM POLICE OFFICERS IS GOING TO DETERIORATE IN QUALITY, EVEN BEYOND PROBLEMS THAT YOU SAY EXIST TODAY?

>> NO, ACTUALLY, I'M HOPEFUL IN THE SENSE THAT WE ARE IN A UNIQUE MOMENT WHERE WE ARE ASKING THE TOUGH QUESTIONS AND BLACK PEOPLE AND BROWN PEOPLE, INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY AND HERE IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, FOR THE LONGEST TIME HAVE BEEN TALKING AND ASKING FOR HELP, ASKING FOR SOLUTION.

WE'VE BEEN IGNORED FOR VERY LONG TIME AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, WE SAW A KILLING OF A MAN REALLY ONE OF THE WORST KILLINGS THAT WE COULD HAVE IMAGINED, GEORGE FLOYD ON 38th AND CHICAGO, NINE MINUTES AND 28 SECONDS, NOT JUST ONE POLICE OFFICER, FOUR POLICE OFFICERS IN LITERALLY DENYING THIS MAN FROM BREATHING, WHO WAS COOPERATIVE, WHO WAS BEGGING FOR A BREATH.

FOR US TO SEE THAT TYPE OF BRUTALITY, IT IS TIME FOR ACTION, IT IS TIME TO REIN IN THIS INDUSTRY AND BUILD A BETTER POLICING SYSTEM THAT WORKS FOR ALL OF US, AND I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE ALSO FAILED THE POOR PEOPLE IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA ACROSS THIS COUNTRY AND WE HAVE TRIED TO ADDRESS MANY ISSUES IN OUR COMMUNITIES THROUGH POLICING, WEST ALSO CREATED THE DANGER THAT WE'RE SEEING AND THE AMOUNT OF INCIDENCE THAT WE HAVE SEEN WHERE YOUNG BLACK MEN HAVE BEEN KILLED.

BUT ALSO I THINK WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES THIS ONE TOUGH QUESTION IS, IF WE'RE SEEING THESE HIGH-PROFILE KILLINGS, WHAT ABOUT ALSO THE TYPE OF DISCRETION THAT POLICE OFFICERS ARE USING THAT HAVE MADE OUR NATION THE HIGHEST -- THE COUNTRY THAT HAS THE HIGHEST RATE OF INCARCERATION IN THE WORLD.

>> Mary: JAYLANI, WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION, IF I COULD GET YOUR SENSE OF THE COMMUNITY, YOU MENTIONED PARTICULARLY WHAT'S HAPPENING IN BROOKLYN CENTER AND HOW WE'RE LEARNING ABOUT IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES THERE AND HOW THERE IS A LIBERIAN MAYOR AND WE HAVE A VERY LARGE SOMALI POPULATION.

CAN YOU TALK TO US ABOUT HOW WE'RE STARTING TO HEAR FROM AND APPRECIATE THAT PART OF OUR POPULATION?

>> WELL, I THINK THE COMMUNITY -- IN MINNESOTA IS BECOMING MORE DIVERSE AND YOU'RE RIGHT, LIKE THERE IS A LARGE LIBERIAN COMMUNITY IN BROOKLYN CENTER, THEY HAVE BEEN ON THE FRONT LINES DEMANDING JUSTICE AND IN SOMALI COMMUNITY, AS WELL, THE LARGE -- ONE OF LARGE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES HERE.

WE'VE HAD OUR CHAIR OF INCIDENCE, AS WELL, SO MANY OF US HAVE BEEN ASKING THESE SAME QUESTIONS [INDISCERNIBLE] WAS KILLED IN MINNEAPOLIS JUST SIX MONTHS AFTER GEORGE FLOYD AND ALSO [ Indiscernible ] THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IMPACTS ALL OF US AND IN AN IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY BLACK AND BROWN, THE LAYERS OF OPPRESSION IS EVEN HIGHER.

BUT I THINK I'M HOPEFUL AND TONIGHT I WANT TO TELL MINNESOTANS THAT WE DID AN AMAZING THING.

12 MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY STOOD TALL AND BROUGHT BACK A GUILTY VERDICT BUT WE CANNOT STOP NOW.

THIS IS A MOMENT FOR OUR STATE TO BE -- TO HOPEFULLY TO SHINE A LIGHT OF JUSTICE ON BEING THE NORTH STAR OF THE STATE AND I BELIEVE THAT.

AND THIS IS A TIME FOR TO US LEAD THIS NATION TOWARD JUSTICE.

GOD CHOSE US FOR THIS MOMENT AND I THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT.

>> Mary: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, JAYLANI HUSSEIN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> FRED: THROUGH GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER, THIS TRIAL, THE PANDEMIC AND NOW THE KILLING OF DAUNTE WRIGHT IN BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA FAMILIES, BUT ESPECIALLY BLACK FAMILIES, HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED BY WHAT THEY SEE AND EXPERIENCE IN THE COMMUNITY, ON TELEVISION, AND THROUGH THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS.

PSYCHOLOGISTS ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE TOLL THIS TRAUMA IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO TAKE.

RECENTLY, WILLIE GARRETT AND BRAVADA GARRETT AKINSANYA SHARED THEIR VIEWS ABOUT HOW FAMILIES CAN BEGIN TO HEAL FROM TRAUMA EXPERIENCED NEARLY DAILY SINCE LAST MEMORIAL DAY.

>> NOW THAT WE'VE HAD THESE EVENTS AND NOW THAT THESE EVENTS HAVE BEEN SHOWN OVER AND OVER AND OVER, AND HAVE BEEN THE TOPIC OF ADULT CONVERSATION, IT HAS TO BE HAVING AN AWFUL EFFECT ON CHILDREN.

AND THE MAIN EFFECT YOU'RE DOING TO SAY IS NOT ONLY AN INCREASED IN BAD STATISTICS LIKE SUICIDE BUT IN GENERAL, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE ANXIETY, ALONG WITH THAT WORRYING, A LOT OF FEARFULNESS, DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIORS, YOU KNOW, OF YOUNGER CHILDREN WITH TANTRUMS, TEENAGERS WITH REBELLION AND OPPOSITION.

WE'RE EXPECTING THOSE THINGS TO DRAMATICALLY INCREASE BECAUSE WE'VE HAD THESE SERIES OF EVENTS.

>> FOR BLACK CHILDREN, TRAUMA HAS ACTUALLY ALREADY PREEXISTED BEFORE THE SITUATION WITH GEORGE FLOYD.

SO BEFORE THAT, AS A COMMUNITY OF BLACK FOLK, WE EXTERNSED PHILANDO CAST CITY, JAMAR CLARK, SANDRA BLAND, RIGHT?

SO WE GO ON AND ON WITH SEEING TRAUMATIC DEATH.

WHAT WE USED TO HEAR ABOUT NOW BECAUSE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, WE ACTUALLY SEE IN REAL TIME.

>> ADULTS HAVE TO GET THEIR HEAD TOGETHER AND TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES, AND THEY NEED TO ASSUME THAT THEIR KID HAS SOME THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS ABOUT THESE E. JUST BECAUSE A KID MAY BE BEHAVING OKAY, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD NOT ASSUME THAT THEY ARE JUST OKAY.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THOSE THINGS THAT HAVE ALL THE HELPED CHILDREN AND FAMILIES IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE ALWAYS RECOMMENDED TO PARENTS AND FAMILIES IS TO HAVE A FAMILY MEAL TOGETHER EVERY DAY.

HAVING A GROUP FAMILY DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON BECAUSE CHILDREN THEN WON'T UNDERSTAND ALL OF WHAT IS HAPPENING: THE BEST THINGS PARENTS CAN FIRST DO IS RECOGNIZE THEIR OWN TRAUMA.

MY RULE OF THUMB IS IF IT'S HARD FOR YOU TO DEAL WITH IT, JUST MULTIPLY THAT AND UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S HARDER FOR YOUR CHILD.

BUT IN SOME WAYS, EVEN IF WE TRY TO SHIELD OUR CHILDREN FROM TV OR RADIO OR ANY OTHER OUTLET WHERE THEY MIGHT SEE IT, THEY STILL CONNECT WITH OTHER CHILDREN.

AND CHILDREN WILL MAKE UP THEIR OWN STORY OR SCENARIO AND IT WON'T BE ANYTHING CLOSE TO BEING ACCURATE.

AND SO SOME BLACK PARENTS OVER-EXPOSE CHILDREN IN TRYING TO MAKE IT ACCURATE, THEY OVER-EXPOSE CHILDREN TO ADULT INFORMATION THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE.

AND THEY USE ADULT WORDS THAT CHILDREN SHOULDN'T UNDERSTAND, AND WON'T UNDERSTAND.

>> EVERYBODY NEEDS TO HAVE A ROUTINE AND THEY NEED THEIR LIFE TO BE PREDICTABLE SO EVERY TEEN HOPES THAT BECAUSE WHEN OUR LIVES ARE PREDICTABLE, WE TEND TO FEEL MORE SECURE AND MORE IN CONTROL OF OURSELVES, AND OUR LIVES.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BE LIKE BUT I'M I EXPECTING A TIDAL WAVE OF DEMANDS FOR MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS IN THE UPCOMING YEARS BECAUSE THEIR EXPERIENCE IS CUMULATIVE EFFECT AND THEY'RE ALREADY OVERLOADED AND THEIR SUPPORT SYSTEM IS ALREADY OVERLOADED.

THE ADULTS ARE ARE ALREADY HAVING THIS FATIGUE AND SADNESS AND OVERWHELMING EMOTIONS ABOUT ALL OF THESE EVENTS.

NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU'RE ON, YOU'RE HAVING SOME INTENTION EMOTIONS ABOUT IT SO THE PARENTS AREN'T ABLE TO BE AS EMOTIONALLY PRESENT AS THEY ORDINARILY WOULD BE, AS WELL.

SO THE EFFECT IS GOING TO BE VERY HARMFUL ON CHILDREN.

WE MAY NOT SEE IT FOR ANOTHER YEAR OR TWO.

♪♪♪ >> MARY: THOUGH THRONGS OF REPORTERS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD DESCENDED ON MINNEAPOLIS TO COVER THE DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL, OUR LOCAL WRITERS AND PHOTOGRAPHERS HAVE REALLY STEPPED TO THE FOREFRONT.

INCLUDED IN THE MIX ARE RICARDO LOPEZ, TAKING PHOTOS AND WRITING FOR THE "MINNESOTA REFORMER," AND BEN HOVLAND, A PHOTOGRAPHER AND JOURNALIST WITH THE SAHAN JOURNAL.

FIRST THING I WANT TO DO IS CHECK IN WITH THE TWO OF YOU.

RICARDO, LAST TIME WE TALKED, I STARTED WITH ASKING HOW YOU'RE DOING.

YOU'VE BEEN VERY PUBLIC IN SHARING YOUR CHALLENGES WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND SOBRIETY THROUGH THIS.

HOW HARD HAS IT BEEN ON YOU?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK YESTERDAY WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT I WAS ABLE TO FEEL JUST THE RELEASE AT THE OUTCOME OF WHAT HAPPENED.

NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE I HAD A, YOU KNOW, A -- AN OPINION ON HOW THE VERDICT SHOULD READ BUT JUST MORE FOR THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT WAS JUST THIS COLLECTIVE OF HAVING -- THE RELIEF THAT WAS REALLY PALPABLE, THE VINDICATION.

I MEAN, THAT WAS JUST SUCH A POWERFUL MOMENT TO BE A PART OF.

>> Mary: AND BEN, PHOTOGRAPHERS WERE INJURED, BLEEDING, BEING DENIED, DENIED ACCESS, HOW WAS IT FOR YOU?

>> YOU KNOW, THAT REALLY -- A LOT OF THAT OCCURRED LAST WEEK DURING THE PROTEST AND RESPONSE TO DAUNTE WRIGHT'S KILLING.

YESTERDAY, HOWEVER, I WAS DOWN AT 38th AND CHICAGO AND THE SCENE WAS VERY MUCH -- VERY DIFFERENT, IT WAS A CELEBRATORY ATMOSPHERE SO PEOPLE WERE REALLY EXPRESSING SOME EMOTIONS OF RELEASE AND GRATITUDE THAT THE VERDICT CAME IN THAT WAY.

>> Mary: WE HAVE IMAGES, TOO, WE DO WANT TO START SHOWING THOSE IMAGES.

FRED?

Fred: I WAS GOING TO ASK, BOTH OF YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE FRONT LINES OF THIS FOR SOME TIME.

I SUSPECT THAT YESTERDAY IT WAS A CELEBRATORY, AS YOU SAY ENVIRONMENT SO LESS THREATENING BUT THERE HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE THREATENING ENCOUNTERS, ESPECIALLY WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND I'M JUST WONDERING WHETHER YOU, YOU KNOW, ARE HINDERED IN A WAY BY THE MODERN DAY REALITY, WHAT IS A JOURNALIST?

EVERYBODY, IT SAYS -- YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS, CLAIMS TO BE A JOURNALIST AND PERHAPS LEGITIMATELY.

SO I'M JUST WONDERING HOW YOU PROCESS ALL OF THIS AS YOU TRY AND JUST BASICALLY GET SOME WORK DONE.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE SEEN A LOT OF DIFFERENCES IN THE MEDIA COME UP AS WELL AS INDEPENDENT JOURNALISTS, AS WELL AS BLACK MEDIA, IT WAS AMAZING TO SEE IS THAT IN RESPONSE TO WHAT, YOU KNOW, SOME COMMUNITY MEMBERS HAVE SAID HAS BEEN EITHER WEAK OR PROBLEMATIC COVERAGE OF THEIR COMMUNITIES IS SOME OF THOSE COMMUNITY MEMBERS IS JUST STEPPING INTO THAT AND SAYING WE'RE GOING TO STEP INTO THIS VOID AND TELL OUR OWN STORIES AND TELL OUR OWN STORIES FROM OUR OWN LENS.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, JOURNALISTS FROM TRADITIONAL AND MORE MAINSTREAM SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT'S A SIGNAL THAT MAYBE THERE IS A DIFFERENT WAY TO CAPTURE THIS REALITY AND FOR ME, I THINK WHAT WAS GREAT TO SEE ABOUT YESTERDAY, ESPECIALLY IMAGES AND VIDEO COMING OUT OF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN SO MUCH PAIN, SO MUCH TRAUMA, SO MUCH GRIEF FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY, IT WAS JUST A JARRING AND WELCOME CHANGE TO SEE JOY.

>> Mary: BEN, COULD YOU TALK ABOUT THAT, AS WELL?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, YOU KNOW, I THINK ABOUT -- TALKING ABOUT -- PEOPLE WHO MAYBE DON'T TRADITIONALLY IDENTIFY AS PRESS, I'VE BEEN THERE.

BEFORE I JOINED THE SAHAN JOURNAL, I WAS FREE LANCING, NAVIGATING MY OWN WAY IN DOCUMENTING MY COMMUNITY.

I GREW UP IN SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS, I WENT TO SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, WE CUT THROUGH THE THIRD PRECINCT PARKING LOT WHEN WE WERE IN CROSS COUNTRY PRACTICE SO I'M THINKING ABOUT THESE COMMUNITIES AND HAVING GROWN UP IN THIS COMMUNITY MYSELF, IT'S TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE, YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE AND GETTING OUT THERE AND DOING YOUR BEST TO REPORT WITH INTEGRITY AND HONESTY BUT ALSO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE MIGHT BE YOUR NEIGHBORS, THESE PEOPLE ARE FOR ME, THERE ARE OTHER ASIAN AMERICANS OUT THERE THAT I HOLD MYSELF ACCOUNTABLE TO, I HOLD MYSELF ACCOUNTABLE TO THE COMMUNITY I'M IN.

>> Mary: WHAT'S ABOUT WHAT'S AHEAD, THE TWO OF YOU, THERE IS ANOTHER TRIAL COMING, A FUNERAL TOMORROW.

THIS ISN'T OVER.

WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS FOR COVERAGE GOING AHEAD?

>> IN SOME WAYS, I THINK WHAT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, WELCOME ABOUT SEEING THIS PROGRESS FROM START TO FINISH IS THAT WE HAVE A ROAD MAP FOR WHAT OUR COVERAGE CAN LOOK LIKE.

WE CAN ALSO LOOK BACK AT WHAT HAS WORKED AND WHAT HASN'T WORKED AND KIND OF -- I THINK JOURNALISM IS VERY OFTEN REFERRED TO AS THE FIRST DRAFT OF HISTORY AND OF COURSE THAT MEANS THAT [INDISCERNIBLE] SO AS WE GET MORE ADEPT WITH HOW WE COVER THESE ISSUES, I ONLY SEE THE COVERAGE IMPROVING AND, YOU KNOW, TRY TO REALLY AIM FOR MORE FREEDOM IN THE COVERAGE.

Fred: YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE LIKE MOST JOURNALISTS, LIKE THIS ONE, YOU OFTEN LOOK BACK AT SOMETHING YOU'VE DONE AND THINK ABOUT WAYS YOU MIGHT HAVE DONE IT DIFFERENTLY AND, IN FACT, BETTER AND COLLECTIVELY IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE BODY OF REPORTING THAT YOU ARE READING AND WATCHING, DO YOU SEE A STORY BEING MISSED, MISREPRESENTED?

ANYTHING STICK OUT TO YOU THUS FAR IN THE COVERAGE OF ALL OF THE EVENT LEADING UMM TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION... Fred: ADDRESSED IT TO BOTH OF YOU, BY THE WAY.

JUST JUMP IN.

>> I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO BE TALKING ABOUT IS EXACTLY THAT, HOW DO WE TAKE THIS STORY -- WE HAVE THE CULMINATION AND A VERDICT IN THIS THRILL BUT I THINK AS MANY ACTIVISTS ARE SAYING, THIS DOESN'T SOLVE POLICING IN MINNEAPOLIS.

WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS, WHERE DO WE GO AND WE'RE REALLY INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT WHAT NETWORKS AND WHAT RELATIONSHIPS AND WHAT COMMUNITY HAS BEEN BUILT AND HAS BEEN ACTIVATED SINCE THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD, SINCE THE DEATH OF PHILANDO CASTILLE, SINCE THE DEALT OF JAMAR CLARK.

THERE ARE LAYERS AND LAYERS OF MOVING PARTS IN MINNESOTA RIGHT NOW THAT ARE WORKING TO, YOU KNOW, END POLICE VIOLENCE THIS SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, AND I THINK THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING AT NEXT.

>> AS I SAID, I'M GLAD BEN JUMPED IN BECAUSE IT GAVE ME A MINUTE TO THINK ABOUT MY OWN COVERAGE BUILD LAST SUMMER, I WAS VERY DOUBTFUL WE WERE GOING TO SEE ANY POLICE REFORM OR ACCOUNTABILITY MEASURES PASSED BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

THERE WAS A FEW SPECIAL SESSIONS WHERE THINGS SORT OF FELL APART AND THERE WAS A BIG SORT OF DISCONNECTS FROM SOME LAWMAKERS FROM THE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND INDIGENOUS CAUCUS WHO FELT CUT OUT OF THE CONVERSATIONS BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, QUITE FRANKLY IT WAS THIS CONTINUED PRESSURE FROM ACTIVISTS IN THE COMMUNITY, FROM ALL THE PROTESTS THAT CONTINUED THAT REALLY DID PUT PRESSURE ON SENATE REPUBLICANS TO DO SOMETHING.

AND NOT ONLY THAT, I THINK IT WAS JUST THOSE CONNECTIONS THAT WERE FORGED BETWEEN SOME MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND INDIGENOUS CAUCUS THAT REALLY, YOU KNOW, THE DIVERSITY -- THE REPRESENTATION DID MAKE A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO WERE ABLE TO SHARE THEIR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT WITH SENATE REPUBLICANS WHO, YOU KNOW, WHO DON'T NECESSARILY COME FROM THE TWIN CITIES.

>> Mary: AND WE'LL BE WATCHING THE LEGISLATURE IN THE FINAL WEEKS OF SESSION ON THOSE ISSUES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH RICARDO AND BEN.

>> MARY: THE UPCOMING VIDEO MAY BE DIFFICULT FOR SOME TO WATCH.

WE HAVE TAKEN CARE NOT TO SHOW GEORGE FLOYD'S FINAL MOMENTS OF LIFE.

HOWEVER, THIS NEXT STORY USES IMAGES FROM THE POLICE-WORN BODY CAMERAS TO ILLUSTRATE THE PROSECUTION AND DEFENSE'S OPENING ARGUMENTS MADE BEFORE THE JURY ON MARCH 29TH.

>> MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT.

>> COWAN?

>> LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY, GOOD MORNING.

YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN IN THIS CASE A LOT ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A PUBLIC SERVANT AND TO HAVE THE HONOR OF WEARING THIS BADGE.

IT'S A SMALL BADGE THAT CARRIES WITH IT A LARGE RESPONSIBILITY AND A LARGE ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PUBLIC.

WHAT DOES IT STAND FOR?

IT REPRESENTS THE VERY PLOT TO OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT -- MOTTO OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT, TO PROTECT WITH COURAGE, TO SERVE WITH COMPASSION.

BUT IT ALSO REPRESENTS THE ESSENCE OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT APPROACH TO THE USE OF FORCE AGAINST ITS CITIZENS WHEN APPROPRIATE.

THE SANCTITY OF LIFE AND THE PROTECTION OF THE PUBLIC SHALL BE THE CORNERSTONES OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT'S USE OF FORCE, COMPASSION, SANCTITY OF LIFE ARE CORNERSTONES OF THE BADGE WORN OVER THE HEART.

BUT I'LL ALSO LEARN THE OFFICER TAKE A OATH, THEY TAKE AN OATH TO I WILL ENFORCE THE LAW COURTEOUSLY AND APPROPRIATELY AND AS YOU WILL LEARN, AS APPLIES TO THIS CASE, NEVER EMPLOYING UNNECESSARY FORCE OR VIOLENCE.

YOU WILL LEARN THAT ON MAY 25th OF 2020, Mr. DEREK CHAUVIN BESTRAYED THIS BADGE.

WHEN HE USED EXCESSIVE AND UNREASONABLE FORCE UPON THE BODY OF Mr. GEORGE FLOYD.

>> PLEASE, MAN, PLEASE.

>> THAT HE PUT HIS KNEES UPON HIS NECK AND HIS BACK GRINDING AND CRUSHING HIM UNTIL THE VERY BREATH WAS SQUEEZED OUT OF HIM.

YOU WILL LEARN THAT HE WAS WELL AWARE THAT Mr. FLOYD WAS UNARMED.

THAT Mr. FLOYD HAD NOT THREATENED ANYONE.

THAT Mr. FLOYD WAS IN HANDCUFFS, HE WAS COMPLETELY IN THE CONTROL OF THE POLICE.

HE WAS DEFERENCELESS.

YOU WILL LEARN WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT 9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS, THE MOST IMPORTANT NUMBERS YOU WILL HEAR IN THIS TRIAL ARE 92-9.

WHAT HAPPENED IN THOSE 9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS WHEN Mr. DERRICK CHAUVIN WAS APPLYING THIS EXCESSIVE FORCE TO THE BODY OF Mr. GEORGE FLOYD.

WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU THROUGH THE EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS NO EXCUSE FOR THE POLICE ABUSE OF Mr. CHAUVIN.

WE'RE GOING TO ASK THAT YOU FIND HIM GUILTY OF MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE, MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE, AND SECOND DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER.

THANK YOU.

>> MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT, COWAN, Mr. CHAUVIN, MEMBERS OF THE JURY, REASONABILITY DOUBT IS A DOUBT THAT IS BASED UPON REASON AND COMMON SENSE.

THERE IS NO POLITICAL OR SOCIAL CAUSE IN THIS COURTROOM, SO HOW DO WE BEGIN TO ANALYZE AND ORGANIZE THIS EVIDENCE?

I SUGGEST THAT YOU LET COMMON SENSE AND REASON GUIDE YOU.

EVERY WITNESS YOU WILL HEAR FROM AND EVERY PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU WILL SEE OR HEAR DURING THIS TRIAL CAN BE ASSIGNED TO ONE OF FOUR BASIC LOCATIONS.

CUP FOODS, A MERCEDES BENZ, SQUAD 320 AND HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER.

LET'S START AT THE FIRST, CUP FOODS.

YOU WILL LEARN THAT ON MAY 25th, 2020, SHORTLY AFTER 7:00 p.m., Mr. FLOYD AND HIS FRIEND, MAURICE HALL, ENTERED THE CUP FOODS LOCATED AT 38th AND CHICAGO.

YOU WILL HEAR FROM CHRIS MARTIN, WHO IS THE STORE CLERK AT CUP FOODS.

Mr. MARTIN OBSERVED Mr. FLOYD, HE WATCHED HIS BODY LANGUAGE, HE INTERACTED WITH Mr. FLOYD IN THIS MOMENT AND Mr. MARTIN FORMED THE OPINION THAT Mr. FLOYD WAS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF SOMETHING.

ACCORDINGLY, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICERS THOMAS LANE AND ALEXANDER KING WERE DISPATCHED TO THE SCENE AND ARRIVED AT 8:08 p.m. DURING THE COURSE OF THIS TRIAL, YOU WILL SEE AND HEAR THE BODY-WORN CAMERAS OF THESE OFFICERS.

THAT FULLY CAPTURED THE ENTIRE INTERACTION WITH Mr. FLOYD, AND HIS -- WHAT WAS Mr. FLOYD'S ACTUAL...

THE EVIDENCE WILL SHOW THAT Mr. FLOYD DIED OF A CARDIAC ARRYTHMIA THAT OCCURRED AS A RESULT OF HYPERTENSION, CORONARY DISEASE, THE INGEST OF METHAMPHETAMINE AND FENTANYL AND THE ADRENALINE FLOWING THROUGH HIS BODY.

ALL OF WHICH ACTED TO FURTHER COMPROMISE AN ALREADY COMPROMISED HEART.

AT THE CONCLUSION OF THIS EVIDENCE, YOU WILL BE INSTRUCTED AS TO THE LAW, THE ELEMENTS OF THE OFFENSE, AND THE COURT WILL GIVE YOU DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS ON WHAT YOU MUST FIND TO CONVICT Mr. CHAUVIN OF THESE CHARGES.

BUT WHEN YOU REVIEW THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE AND WHEN YOU HEAR THE LAW AND APPLY REASON AND COMMON SENSE, THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE JUST VERDICT, AND THAT IS TO FIND Mr. CHAUVIN NOT GUILTY.

HIM >> FRED: THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN WAS CONSUMED BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE ONLY WAY THIS HAPPENED, DUE TO MINNESOTA STATUTE, IS BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

JUDGE CAHILL ALLOWED CAMERAS INTO HIS COURT ROOM AS A WAY TO BE ABLE TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD END UP GATHERING IN AND AROUND THE COURT.

OUR NEXT GUEST, JANE KIRTLEY, A PROFESSOR OF MEDIA ETHICS AND LAW AT THE SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA, JOINS US FROM THE MEZZANINE LEVEL AT TPT.

GREATINGS, PROFESSOR KIRTLEY.

JUST WONDERING, WITH THE EXPERIENCE NOW OF THE FIRST TELEVISED MINNESOTA TRIAL, DO YOU THINK WHAT WE'VE HAD BEFORE, WHICH IS THE PROHIBITION, WILL BECOME SORT OF A RELIC OF THE PAST, THE STATUS QUO, OLD TECHNOLOGY?

HAS THIS BEEN MARKED A TURNING POINT IN THE HISTORY OF CAMERAS IN THE COURT IS THIS.

>> I CERTAINLY HOPE SO.

THE RESISTANCE OF THIS STATE, THE JUDICIARY AND THE BAR TO HAVE CAMERAS IN CRIMINAL TRIALS HAS BEEN LONGSTANDING AND WE'RE SURROUNDED BY STATES WHERE CAMERAS IN CRIMINAL TRIALS ARE COMMONPLACE.

IF THERE'S ANYTHING GOOD COMING OUT OF COVID, IT'S THAT JUDGE CAHILL RECOGNIZED THAT WITHOUT CAMERAS IN THE COURTS, THERE WAS SIMPLY NO WAY THE PUBLIC AND THE PRESS COULD EXERCISE THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO SEE AND HEAR WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THAT COURTROOM.

HAVING GONE AS SMOOTHLY AS I BELIEVE IT HAS, AND NOT HAVING HAD THE DETECTIVE MENTAL EFFECTS THAT MANY PEOPLE FEARED, I HOPE THAT IN FUTURE, THE COURTS WILL SAY, THIS THIS SHOULD BE THE NORM FOR MINNESOTA.

>> Mary: PROFESSOR ONE THING WE SAY IN JOURNALISM IS NUMBERS DON'T LIE.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE FIRM NUMBERS BUT I'VE HEARD MILLIONS WATCHED.

IS THAT PROOF THAT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA AND IT WORKED?

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT IT'S PROOF OF IS THAT THE PUBLIC IS INTENSELY INTERESTED THAT WHAT HAPPENS IN OUR COURTROOMS.

THE FACTS OF THE MATTER IS THAT MOST PEOPLE WILL NEVER GO INSIDE A COURTROOM, MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT LAWYERS, THEY ARE NOT JUDGES, THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TRANSPIRES THERE, TO THE EXTENT THEY THINK THEY KNOW, IT'S USUALLY BASED ON FICTION, ON TELEVISION SHOWS.

THIS IS SHOWING THEM THE REALITY OF WHAT -- WHAT I THINK A PROPERLY RUN TRIAL IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

I THINK THAT IT WAS AN IMPRESSIVE PERFORMANCE BY EVERYBODY CONCERNED AND, AGAIN, I THINK WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS THAT THE PUBLIC WILL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED THERE.

AS A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE ONCE SAID, THE PUBLIC DOES NOT DEMAND INFALLIBILITY FROM ITS INSTITUTIONS BUT IT'S VERY HARD TO TRUST THEM IF YOU CAN'T SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING, AND THROUGH THIS COMBINATION OF CIRCUMSTANCES, WE SAW, NOT ONLY WE HERE IN MINNESOTA BUT AS YOU SAID, PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Fred: I'M JUST WONDERING, WHAT THE RETICENCE WAS ALL ABOUT AND I CAN IMAGINE IN A PREVIOUS ERA WHEN CAMERAS WERE BIG AND CUMBERSOME, THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN STRAUSS IRV, BUT EVERYTHING THESE DAYS IS ON -- INTRUSIVE, BUT EVERYBODY CARRIES A VIDEO CAMERA IN THEIR POCKET.

WHAT WOULD EXPLAIN THE RETICENCE TODAY, IF ANY STILL EXISTS?

>> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID HIS BIGGEST CONCERN WAS THAT WITNESSES WOULD BE INTIMIDATED BY THE PRESS WITH CAMERAS AND THAT THEY WOULD BE RELUCTANT TO TESTIFY.

I THINK AGAIN THE EXPERIENCE NOT ONLY HERE BUT IN THE OTHER STATES WHERE CAMERAS ARE ROUTINELY IN CRIMINAL TRIALS HAS SHOWN THAT JUST ISN'T THE CASE.

THE OTHER ISSUE OF THIS DISRUPTION THAT LAWYERS WOULD GRANDSTAND FOR THE CAMERAS, NONE OF THAT WAS A FACTOR IN THIS TRIAL AND I WOULD SAY IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF TRIALS ALL OVERLY THE COUNTRY BECAUSE, AS YOU SAID, CAMERAS ARE UBIQUITOUS, PEOPLE ARE NOT PHASED BY THEM, THEY DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THEM, THEY CARRY ON AND GET THEIR JOBS DONE.

>> Mary: HOW ABOUT THE JURY?

THAT WAS THE OTHER CONCERN THAT SOMEHOW THE JURORS MAY ACCIDENTALLY ENDS UP ON CAMERA.

DO YOU THINK IT WAS SAFE FOR THE JURORS AND THAT HELPS BOLSTER THE CASE GOING FORWARD FOR CAMERAS?

>> WELL, THE COURT WAS BEING VERY, VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT AND I BELIEVE AT ONE POINT EARLY ON DURING JURY SELECTION, THERE WAS SOME CONCERN THAT THE JURORS WERE ACTUALLY -- THEIR IMAGES WERE BEING REFLECTED IN THE PLEXIGLASS AND THEY SAID WE HAVE TO MOVE THIS BECAUSE WE CAN'T HAVE EVEN THAT REFLECTISM IMAGE THERE.

I THINK THEY WERE ASSURED THEY WOULD BE KEPT ANONYMOUS.

I HAVE MY OWN VIEWS ABOUT ANONYMITY OF JURORS BUT IN THIS CASE THAT WAS MAINTAINED.

Fred: DO YOU THINK THIS ISSUE IS GOING TO RESOLVE QUICKLY?

WHAT DO YOU SEE GOING FORWARD IN THE MINNESOTA COURT SYSTEM?

>> WELL, I'M VERY, VERY HOPEFUL THAT THE COURTS WILL SEE THE JUDGES WILL SEE THAT THIS IS BUSINESS AS USUAL, THAT NOTHING WAS DISRUPTED AND THAT THE PUBLIC BENEFITED BY THIS INSIGHT INTO HOW THE SYSTEM OF JUST TEST OPERATES.

I ALWAYS THINK THAT REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME, HOW COMFORTABLE WILL THEY BE, WILL THE PUBLIC BE SIMPLY HEARING EITHER GUILTY OR ACQUITTED.

WE WANT TO KNOW HOW THE JURY REACHED THAT CONCLUSION AND BY VIRTUE OF HAVING THE CAMERAS THERE, WE WERE ABLE TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON.

Fred: PROFESSOR JANE KIRTLEY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪♪ >> MARY: WE WILL SPEND THE FINAL SEGMENT OF TONIGHT'S SHOW TALKING ABOUT THE TRIAL WITH TWO LEGAL ANALYSTS.

SHANNON PRINCE IS A LAWYER IN PRIVATE PRACTICE IN NEW YORK CITY AND MARK OSLER IS A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS LAW SCHOOL.

FIRST OF ALL, LET'S TALK TO YOU, SHANNON, ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATION.

THAT WAS THE NEWS OF THE DAY.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM THAT GOING FORWARD?

>> WELL, I THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE A GREATER ATTENTION NOT JUST TO THE ISSUE OF BAD OPTICS BUT TO THE ISSUE OF POLICING POLICY AND THE STRUCTURES THAT ALLOW BAD ACTORS TO GROW AND FLOURISH.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO FOCUS ON THE POLICE DEPARTMENT -- TO SIGNAL TO THE COUNTRY AT LARGE THAT WE NEED TO FOCUS -- NOT BE DISTRACTED BY THE ACTIONS OF THE INDIVIDUAL POLICE OFFICERS BUT TO LOOK TOE GREATER CONTENTS AND TO LOOK AT PATTERNS UNTIL WE CAN CREATE NEW SYSTEMS THAT CREATE -- AND MAKE THE COMMUNITY SAFER.

>> Mary: MARK, THIS CERTAINLY ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THE DOJ HAAS JUMPED IN BUT HOW WILL IT BE DIFFERENT?

>> WELL, FOR ONE THING, IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE IT'S HAPPENED.

THESE KIND OF THINGS DIDN'T OCCUR DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SO THEY MAY BE A LITTLE RUSTY BUT THIS ONE WILL BE DIFFERENT.

IN THAT IT'S GOING TO BE SYSTEMIC AND IT'S GOING TO LOOK AT CULTURE, I BELIEVE.

THEY'VE ALREADY HAD A -- THERE WAS A FEDERAL GRAND JURY WORKING AT THE CHAUVIN CASE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS PRESUMABLY IF AN AQUIT AL OCCURRED IN THE STATE TRIAL BUT I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT IN THE SENSE THAT THERE HASN'T BEEN AN EXAMINATION QUITE LIKE THIS BY EXPERTS OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I LOOK FORWARD TO THE RESULTS.

Fred: THERE WAS A UBIQUITOUS -- YOU BIC WHICH TEE WITH THE VIDEO ACROSS THIS TRIAL AT SO MANY LEVELS THE AND THE MOST GRANULAR LEVELS, WE GOT TO SEE VIDEO.

HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO IMPACT TRIALS MOVING FORWARD?

FOR EXAMPLE, WILL WE EVER HAVE A CHANGE OF VENUE, FOR EXAMPLE, HAPPEN BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN TOO MUCH PUBLICITY?

SHANNON, WANT TO TAKE THAT FIRST?

WELL AT SOME POINT -- JUST INEFFECTIVE.

FOR EXAMPLE, DEFENSE COUNSEL ASKED FOR THE VENUE TO BE CHANGED IN THIS CASE AND JUDGE CAHILLARY EMPLOYED THAT THERE WAS NO PLACE WITHIN MINNESOTA TO WHICH THE VENUE COULD BE CHANGED.

THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FAMILIAR WITH THIS CASE.

>> ONE THING I WOULD ADD IS WE SHOULD RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF A REFORM THAT'S FAIRLY RECENT WHICH IS BODY-WORN CAMERAS BY THE POLICE, THAT, IN THIS CASE, YES, THE BYSTANDER VIDEO WAS ESSENTIAL BUT WE ALSO SAW HOW IMPORTANT THOSE CAMERAS WORN BY POLICE TURNED OUT TO BE.

MANY PEOPLE WERE SKEPTICAL ABOUT WHETHER THAT WOULD BE USEFUL ARE, TURNS OUT WE HAVE AN ANSWER.

Fred: WILL WE EVER SEEK JURORS WHO ARE BLANK SLATES.

IS THAT EACH A THING ANYMORE GIVEN THAT EVERY ONE OF US IS ON CAMERA AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER AND WATCHING IT ELSEWHERE?

>> THAT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE AND HIGH-PROFILE CASES BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS AN ANOMALY, THAT IN MOST CASES, WE DON'T HAVE THAT LEVEL OF VIDEO, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN QUITE SO PUBLIC A WAY.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT ALLOWED THIS CASE TO BE HOPEFULLY AN INFLECTION POINT FOR WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE IN THE FUTURE IN TERMS OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> Mary: SHANNON, COULD YOU TALK ABOUT VIDEO AND NOT JUST THE QUANTITY THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BUT ALSO THE QUALITY AND THE USE OF TECHNOLOGY IN TESTIMONY?

I THOUGHT IT WAS REMARKABLE NOT JUST THAT WE WERE SEEING VIDEO BUT THE PEOPLE WERE TESTIFYING AND THAT ARE RATTING TO VIDEO AND CIRCLING VIDEO AND INTERACTING, IT SEEMED SO DIFFERENT AND SO SPECIFIC WITH THE QUALITY OF TECHNOLOGY.

IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE GOING FORWARD?

>> IT IS.

AS TECHNOLOGY GETS BETTER, WE SEE THAT THE PURSUIT OF JUSTICE IS BOLSTERED AND I HOPE THAT THERE WILL BE POLICY CHANGES TO USE TECHNOLOGY.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT BEING ABLE TO USE VIDEO IN THESE WAYS IS HAVING VIDEO IN THE FIRST PLACE.

IN THE WAKE OF THIS TRIAL, THE PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, GEORGE FLOYD -- THE ACTION HAS ALREADY PASSED IN THE HOUSE BUT NOT IN THE SENATE BUT IT CALLS FOR A VARIETY OF POLICE REFORMS, INCLUDING INCREASED USE OF BODY-WORN CAMERAS AND DASH CAMERAS.

AFTER THE TRIAL IN WHICH WE'VE ALL SEEN VIDEO EVIDENCE IN PLAY AND THIS IS GOING TO BE HARDER FOR LEGISLATORS TO NOT MAKE SURE THAT THAT EVIDENCE IS AVAILABLE.

>> Mary: DOES IT SET A NEW PRECEDENT IN THE COURTROOM ON HOW TECHNOLOGY IS YOUTHSED AN INTERACTED WITH DURING A TRIAL?

>> YES, IT DOES.

I MEAN, A LOT OF WHAT WE SAW HERE WAS THE AMATEUR VIDEO THAT WAS TAKEN.

NOW, IN TERMS OF YOU WERE TALKING BEFORE ABOUT HAVING THE LIVESTREAM OF THE CASE, 30 YEARS AGO, I WAS CLERKING FOR A JUDGE IN PHILADELPHIA AND COURT TV DID ONE OF ITS FIRST TRIALS THERE THAT WAS TELL ADVISED SO IS THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE BUT IT'S TAKEN US IN MINNESOTA A WHILE TO GET UP TO SPEED.

AND THOSE TWO THINGS CAME TOGETHER, THE USE OF THE VIDEO, AMOUNT OF VIDEO, THE QUALITY OF VIDEO AND THEN IT BEING BROADCAST TOO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD THROUGH THE LIVESTREAM OF THE TRIAL WAS REALLY POWERFUL.

Fred: WE'LL GO FIRST WITH THE LOCAL OR THE STATE OF MINNESOTA PERSPECTIVE AND THEN MORE NATIONAL ONE ON THIS QUESTION, AND THAT IS THE ROLE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BEING CALLED IN TO TAKE ON THIS CASE.

IT WAS A GREAT DEAL OF RANCOR SOON AFTER THIS INCIDENT IN THE HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY DEFERRED, IT SEEMED, TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO TAKE OVER THIS CASE.

THERE IS ANOTHER CASE NOW COMING UP IN THE TRIAL OF THE SUBURBAN OFFICER IN THE POLICE SHOOTING OF DAUNTE WRIGHT AND THE MAYOR OF BROOKLYN CENTER CALLED FOR THE A.G. TO GET INVOLVED.

WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS?

IS THIS A ONE-OFF, ARE WE LIKELY TO SEE MORE OF THIS HAPPENING?

>> YEAH, WELL, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WHAT WE SAW WAS GOVERNOR WALZ STEPPED IN AND MADE THE DECISION, I BELIEVE, TO HAVE THE A.G.

HANDLE THIS CASE.

WITH THE COOPERATION OF THE HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT -- AND ALSO WITH DAUNTE WRIGHT, IN THAT CASE, WHAT WE SAW IS ANOTHER COUNTY ATTORNEY, THE WASHINGTON COUNTY ATTORNEY STEP IN BECAUSE OF AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN SEVERAL COUNTIES, INCLUDING RAMSEY, WASHINGTON AND HENNEPIN, THAT POLICE CASES WOULD BE TAKEN BY ONE OF THE OTHER COUNTY ATTORNEYS SO THEY WOULD BE TRADING OFFER, WHICH IS SAYING THAN SAYING IT'S THE STATE.

OF COURSE THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM AND I SAY THIS AS A FORMER% MYSELF, YOU HAVE ONGOING RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE POLICE.

YOU DEPEND ON THEM TO BRING YOU CASE ATTENTION AND THE CONFLICT THAT'S CREATED BY ALSO IN THE PROSECUTOR OF THEIR MISBEHAVIOR IS REAL.

>> Mary: SHANNON, WOULD YOU LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL JUMPING IN AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BEING A PERSON OF COLOR, TOO, DO YOU THINK THAT HEMMED BUY-IN IN THE COMMUNITY?

>> I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT PEOPLE HIM SAW THEMSELVES REFLECTED IN THE SYSTEM OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND I AGREE WITH Mr. OSLER, MOST IMPORTANT IS THEY FOUND THE PROSECUTORS WHO REGULARLY WORK WITH THE POLICE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO ARE HANDLING CHARGING THE POLICE AND LITIGATING AGAINST THE POLICE.

I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS SO MUCH WHETHER IT'S THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHETHER IT'S THE PROSECUTORS OF A DIFFERENT COUNTY OR AS WE SAW IN THIS CASE, ALSO SPECIAL PROSECUTORS BROUGHT IN FROM PRIVATE PRACTICE.

I JUST THINK THAT THE SIMPLE TWEAK OF MAKING SURE THAT THE PROSECUTORS WHO PROSECUTE THE POLICE ARE NOT THE SAME ONES WHO PARTNER WITH THE POLICE AND HAVE AN ENORMOUS IMPACT ON JUSTICE AS WE JUST SAW YESTERDAY.

>> Mary: SPEAKING OF POLICE, WHAT IS THE MOOD GOING FORWARD, SEEING A CHIEF OF POLICE TESTIFY AGAINST ONE OF HIS FORMER OFFICERS, SEEING OTHER FELLOW OFFICERS KIND OF BREAK THAT CODE.

IS IT AS SIGNIFICANT AS PEOPLE HAVE SAID?

>> SO -- IT'S REALLY POWERFUL.

SEEING POLICE CHIEF ARRADONDO TAKE THE STAND TO SAY THE CHAUVIN USE OF FORCE WAS IMPROPER HAD A HUGE IMIMPACT ON THE JURY AND NATION.

ON THE OTHER HAND, ONE MIGHT ADD WHY POLICE CHIEF ARRADONDO ALLOWED CHAUVIN TO BE ON THE BOARD WHEN HE HAD SEVERAL COMPLAINTS AGAINST HIM, WHEN HE HAD ALREADY CHOKED OR FELT ON OTHER PEOPLE BEFORE Mr. FLOYD.

ONE MIGHT ASK WHAT POLICIES ARE IN PLACE TO ALLOW SOMEONE WITH THAT KIND OF RECORD TO HAVE A JOB OF A POLICE OFFICER, SO BREAKING THE CODE OF SILENCE WAS A GOOD FIRST STEP.

BUT THE NEXT STEP IS CHANGING POLICY.

Fred: JUST A QUICK QUESTION, Mr. OSLER, HOW ENABLING WAS THE VIVID VIDEO THAT WE SAW OF THE BYSTANDER IN ALLOWING THAT WALL TO BE RUPTURED.

IT WAS AN EASY SLAM DUNK, THAT VIDEO WAS SO COMPELLING.

>> YEAH, AND THAT WAS HUGE AND RECENTLY PEOPLE HAVE DID YOU GO UP THE FIRST PRESS RELEASE THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT PUT OUT ABOUT THIS EVENT WHICH WAS MAN DIES OF MEDICAL ISSUE DURING POLICE ENCOUNTER, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IT'S SOMETHING WE'VE COME TO SEE AS THE EXONERATE -- THAT WE SEE SOMETIMES IN THE PRESS, TOO, BUT THE VIDEO MADE THAT NARRATIVE IMPOSSIBLE.

IT BECAME DURING THE TRIAL EXACTLY HOW THAT CAME DOWN, THAT THAT VIDEO WAS IMMEDIATELY DISTRIBUTED, INCLUDING TO THE CHIEF OF POLICE.

>> Mary: ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> MARY: THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE TONIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING FRED AND ME FOR THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF "ALMANAC."

AS A PROGRAMMING NOTE, ERIC AND CATHY ARE BACK IN STUDIO B FRIDAY WITH A FULL SLATE OF STORIES AND HEADLINES INCLUDING A LOOK AT THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF VICE PRESIDENT WALTER MONDALE.

GOOD NIGHT.

♪♪♪ Captioned by: Paradigm Reporting/Captioning www.paradigmreporting.com ♪♪♪ "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.