>> Eric: WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF A TIE IN THE MINNESOTA HOUSE, AND A CERTAINTY THAT THE D.F.L.

TRIFECTA IS GONE IN ST. PAUL, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FUN TO CHECK IN WITH TWO FORMER HOUSE SPEAKERS ABOUT WHAT SHARED LEADERSHIP COULD LOOK LIKE IF THE HOUSE REMAINS IN A TIE AFTER RECOUNTS ARE COMPLETE.

MARGARET ANDERSON KELLIHER SERVED AS THE D.F.L.

HOUSE SPEAKER FOR TWO LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS, FROM JANUARY 2007 TO JANUARY 2011.

ALSO SERVING TWO SESSIONS AS HOUSE SPEAKER, REPUBLICAN KURT DAUDT HELD THAT POSITION FROM JANUARY 2015 TO JANUARY OF 2019.

MADAM SPEAKER, DO YOU HAVE SOME EXPECT CFSS EXPECTATIONS OR SPECULATION ON HOW THIS MIGHT END UP?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT COOPERATION IS ALWAYS GOOD.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A FAN OF RELATIONSHIP BUILDING, GETTING TO KNOW EACH OTHER, AND REALLY WORKING THROUGH THE PROBLEM-SOLVING THAT MINNESOTANS NEED THE LEGISLATURE TO WORK THROUGH.

SO I THINK THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT.

THE CLOSENESS OF IT, IT WILL REALLY LEAD TO THAT.

>> Eric: THE IMPORTANCE OF RELATIONSHIPS GOING FORWARD.

>> IT IS.

POLITICS IS A RELATIONSHIP BUSINESS, AND I THINK IF THEY CAN BOTH, BOTH SIDES REMEMBER THAT NEITHER ONE OF THEM WON THE MAJORITY, WHICH GETS YOU THE SPOILS AND THEY APPROACH IT FROM HOW CAN WE WORK TOGETHER, I THINK THAT WILL HELP THEM TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM STRONGLY TO REALLY LOOK AT A POWER-SHARING AGREEMENT, RATHER THAN WHAT HAPPENED BACK IN 1979 WHICH WAS I'LL TRADE YOU THIS IF YOU GIVE ME THAT.

BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS IT BECOMES ADVERSARIAL AND IT INCENTIVIZES YOU TO WORK AGAINST EACH OTHER, BUT IF YOU HAD A POWER-SHARING AGREEMENT I THINK IT WOULD INCENTIVIZE YOU TO WORK TOGETHER.

>> Cathy: ALTHOUGH THAT AGREEMENT WORKED UNTIL IT DIDN'T.

>> WELL, THAT'S ALWAYS THE CASE, RIGHT?

>> Cathy: EXACTLY.

AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT COOPERATION WHICH IS GREAT.

BUT YOU BOTH LED CAUCUSES THAT CAN BE A LITTLE FRACTIOUS, RIGHT?

IT'S HARD TO KEEP YOUR CAUCUS TOGETHER, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD THEN, IT'S HARD TO KEEP YOUR CAUCUS TOGETHER MUCH LESS SHARE POWER, RIGHT?

THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> YEAH, IT IS.

I ACTUALLY THINK IF YOU HAD A POWER SHARING AGREEMENT WHERE YOU HAD SORT OF TWO SPEAKERS I GUESS, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A SPEAKER AT ALL BUT YOU'D HAVE TWO PEOPLE THAT WOULD SHARE THAT JOB AND SHARE THE DUTIES OF THAT JOB, AND I THINK IF THEY, IF THEY THINK ABOUT THEIR JOB AS, YOU KNOW, IT TAKES 68 VOTES ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION TO PASS A BILL INTO LAW AND BOTH CAUCUSES ONLY HAVE 67 SO IF THEY THINK ABOUT IT AS, WELL, HOW DO WE TRY TO GET THE 34 FROM THIS SIDE AND THE 34 FROM THAT SIDE PLUS OR MINUS TO PASS A BILL, INSTEAD OF HOW DO WE GET OUR 67 AND IS ONE OF THEIRS, I THINK IF THEY APPROACH IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE I THINK THAT WILL HELP.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK SO.

I ALSO PUT A LOT OF FAITH IN SPEAKER HORTMAN AND IN LEADER DEMUTH.

I THINK THEY BOTH ARE COMING AT THIS FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF HIS IS NOT 1978, THIS IS NOT THE '70S, THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT LEGISLATURE, AND I THINK THAT THEY AS LEADERS ARE VERY COMMITTED TO THAT WORK OF BEING ABLE TO LEGISLATE FOR MINNESOTANS.

>> Eric: I WONDER HOW THE TEMPORARY RULES AND THE PERMANENT RULES OF THE HOUSE COULD BE CHANGED, LIMITING SPEAKING TIME ON THE FLOOR, FEWER AMENDMENTS.

SOME OF THAT, OR IS THAT TOO MUCH.

>> THOSE THINGS HAVE BEEN DEBATED OVER THE YEARS CERTAINLY.

, IS THERE A CHANCE OR TOO MUCH TO TAKE ON?

>> I THINK IT'S TOO MUCH TO TAKE ON.

I THINK THEY HAVE TO WORK ON HOW ARE WE GOING TO WORK TOGETHER OR SET UP THIS POWER-SHARING AGREEMENT, IF YOU GET -- THOSE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN EBATED OVER THE YEARS AND I'M ACTUALLY PRETTY PROUD, THE 13 YEARS THAT I WAS IN THE HOUSE OR 13, LITTLE MORE THAN 13 YEARS WE NEVER CALLED THE QUESTION IN THE HOUSE.

RIGHT?

I WOULD PUSH THAT RIGHT UP -- >> Eric: ENDING DEBATE.

>> ENDING DEBATE AND I WOULD PUSH IT RIGHT UP TO THE LINE BUT WHEN I THOUGHT THE OTHER SIDE WAS GETTING READY TO CALL THE QUESTION AND END DEBATE WHICH WAS ALWAYS KIND OF THE NUCLEAR OPTION.

I'D SAY HEY, WHY DIDN'T WE JUST TALK ABOUT THIS.

>> I HAD TO DO IT ONE YEAR, THAT WAS THE TRUTH.

GOVERNOR PAWLENTY WANTED THE TAX BILL, THE MINORITY WAS DOING WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO WHICH WAS TO THROW THE SAND IN THE GEARS AND GET US TO STOP AND THE GOVERNOR'S ON THE PHONE SAYING I WANT THE TAX BILL.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE DID.

AND I THINK IT'S A TOOL.

EVERYTHING'S A TOOL.

NOW, LET ME SAY ABOUT RULES, THOUGH, I THINK THERE WILL BE A LOT OF SELF-GOVERNING OF THINGS LIKE DEBATE AND AMENDMENTS BECAUSE OF THE CLOSENESS.

A LOT OF THINGS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO COME OUT OF COMMITTEE AND REALLY BE ALMOST PRENEGOTIATED.

>> Eric: SO MORE WORK IN COMMITTEE THAN ON THE FLOOR.

>> I THINK SO.

>> Eric: THAT WOULD LIMIT AMENDMENTS PROBABLY.

>> AND MORE TRANSPARENT WORK.

I ACTUALLY THINK TOO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS 67-67, IT'S A LOT BETTER, I THINK, THAN 68-66, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD THAT IN THE PAST, AND THAT MEANS ANY ONE MEMBER CAN HOLD THEIR CAUCUS HOSTAGE AND IT CAN SOMEBODY ON THE FAR EXTREME SIDE OR IT CAN BE SOMEBODY ON THE MIDDLE SIDE OF THE CAUCUS THAT SAYS I'M NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR THAT BILL UNLESS I GET THAT.

AND I THINK IN THIS SCENARIO YOU COULD ACTUALLY END UP WITH A SITUATION WHERE IF YOU'VE GOT BROAD SWATHS OF BOTH CAUCUSES VOTING FOR THE BILLS AND YOU'VE AGREED TO THEM TOGETHER, I THINK THIS, YOU END UP WITH A VERY BASE BUDGET, NOT A LOT OF POLICY, BUT WE STICK TO THE THINGS THAT NEED TO GET DONE.

>> AND YOU CAN DO A LOT OF OVERSIGHT, SO LET ME JUST SAY THAT THIS HAS BEEN A VERY PRODUCTIVE TIME PREVIOUSLY IN THE LEGISLATURE, AND THIS IS AN IDEAL TIME TO GO BACK IN AND SAY BOTH TAKE THOSE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT REPORTS AND LET'S TAKE A LOOK, LET'S SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD A COMMISSIONER AS WELL, WE SED THOSE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT REPORTS TO IMPROVE THINGS.

OVERSIGHT IS A KEY PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AND SHOULD BE EMBRACED MORE, AND THIS IS A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING, BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW HOUSE LEADERSHIP, WHERE DOES THE GOVERNOR FIT INTO THIS?

HE'S COMING BACK IN, RIGHT, AND HE'S BEEN A LITTLE BLOODIED BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.

HOW DOES HE FIT INTO THIS IN TERMS OF THE POWER AND HIS ROLE AND I'M CURIOUS TO SEE WHETHER YOU THINK HE'S A LITTLE WOUNDED PERHAPS?

WHAT HAPPENS?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE YOU STILL BECAUSE THE SENATE IS DEMOCRATIC BY ONE VOTE AND IS LEADER MURPHY, SHE'S AN EXCELLENT LEADER, SHE'S BEEN THROUGH A LOT OVER THE YEARS, THE TWO VERSUS ONE IN SOME WAYS, IT'S STILL GOING TO HAVE THAT ELEMENT TO IT, THE GOVERNOR'S GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF STRENGTH IN THIS.

GOVERNORS DO GET A LOT OF WHAT THEY WANT, WHETHER LEGISLATORS WANT O ADMIT IT OR NOT.

>> THAT'S TRUE, YEAH.

>> AND THE GOVERNOR WILL BE IN A POWERFUL OSITION, I THINK HE'S PROBABLY GOING TO TRAVEL THE STATE AND BE ABLE TO TALK TO A LOT OF MINNESOTANS AT THIS POINT AND I THINK HE'S ACTUALLY IN GOOD SHAPE IN MINNESOTA TO REBUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

>> I THINK AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC THAT I'VE PICKED UP ON TODAY IN HIS WORDS COMING BACK FROM TRAVELING AROUND THE COUNTRY TALKING TO PEOPLE AND HIM BELIEVING THAT FOLKS AROUND THE COUNTRY REALLY THOUGHT THAT WHAT WE DID IN MINNESOTA WAS GOOD OR BETTER THAN WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, AND I THINK REPUBLICANS HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE BELIEVE THAT TRUMP WON THE ELECTION PARTLY BECAUSE OF THAT KIND OF AGENDA AND THAT IT WAS VERREACH.

SO I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE DISCONNECT BETWEEN WHAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING RIGHT NOW.

>> Eric: I'M GETTING A HOOK.

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST THING WAS THE ECONOMY, SO.

>> Eric: COME BACK AND SEE