♪♪ >> Eric: JOINING US NOW TO ADD THEIR OWN UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE ON THE COURT DECISION AND ONGOING BATTLE OVER HOUSE LEADERSHIP, TWO FORMER HOUSE LEADERS.

KURT DAUDT SERVED AS THE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE FOR TWO LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS, FROM JANUARY 2015 TO JANUARY OF 2019.

ALSO SERVING TWO SESSIONS AS HOUSE SPEAKER, D.F.L.

HOUSE MEMBER MARGARET ANDERSON KELLIHER HELD THAT POSITION FROM JANUARY 2007 TO JANUARY 2011.

WELCOME BACK.

GREAT TO SEE YOU.

WHAT WOULD YOU BE DOING IN THIS SITUATION IF YOU WERE SPEAKER DESIGNATE DEMUTH?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE COURT DECISION OBVIOUSLY WAS A SETBACK FOR THE REPUBLICANS WHO HAD BEEN, YOU KNOW, THEY SHOWED UP TO DO BUSINESS ON THE FIRST DAY AND THEY'VE BEEN CONDUCTING BUSINESS OPEN HOPING THAT THE DEMOCRATS WOULD ALSO SHOW UP.

I THINK THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO WIN THIS COURT DECISION WOULD ONLY HAVE BEEN IF THE COURT WOULD HAVE SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO WADE INTO THIS.

WE'RE GOING TO LET THE HOUSE DECIDE.

OTHERWISE I THINK THE LANGUAGE IS SOMEWHAT CLEAR.

BUT WHAT THE LANGUAGE ALSO SAYS IN THE CONSTITUTION IS THAT A MINORITY OF MEMBERS OR LESS THAN A QUORUM OF MEMBERS, IT'S IN THE SAME ARTICLE, THAT THE HOUSE CAN ADJOURN ITSELF AND THE HOUSE CAN -- THAT MINORITY OF THOSE MEMBERS CAN COMPEL THE ABSENT MEMBERS USING WHATEVER MEANS THEY DEEM NECESSARY TO SHOW UP.

AND BY STEVE SIMON GAVELING THEM OUT ON THE FIRST AY HE ACTUALLY DIDN'T ALLOW THEM TO HAVE THAT CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO DO THOSE TWO THINGS.

I DON'T THINK HE CAN GAVEL OUT OF SESSION.

>> Eric: AND IF YOU WERE MELISSA HORTMAN?

>> WELL, I THINK THE SPEAKER HAS DONE THE RIGHT THING HERE.

I MEAN, THERE IS NO DOUBT SHE NEEDS TO PROTECT THOSE VOTERS IN SHAKOPEE.

WE'VE HAD CLOSER ELECTIONS IN THIS STATE.

WE'VE FRANKLY HAD WEIRDER ELECTIONS IN THIS STATE AND PEOPLE HAVE ACCEPTED THE RESULTS.

THE ONLY REASON THIS IS HAPPENING IS IT'S AN OUTRIGHT POWER PLAY.

AND EVERYBODY NEEDS TO SAVE FACE NOW.

THE COURT ACTUALLY GAVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE TO SAVE SOME FACE, Mr. PAUL NOT APPEALING TO THE SUPREME COURT -- >> TABKE'S REPUBLICAN OPPONENT.

>> EXACTLY.

IT GIVES LEADER DEMUTH SOME ABILITY TO ALSO SAVE SOME FACE, GET TOGETHER, GET THIS DONE.

>> Cathy: HOW MUCH PRESSURE IS SPEAKER DESIGNATE DEMUTH FACING, THOUGH, TO STAY THE COURSE, YOU KNOW, DON'T CAVE, KEEP GOING?

>> I THINK A FAIR AMOUNT OF PRESSURE, BUT THERE'S TWO PIECES HERE.

FIRST IT'S THE BRAD TABKE, YOU KNOW, 14-VOTE, 20 VOTES MISSING THING.

I THINK SHE SHOULD GIVE ON THAT ONE.

I THINK SHE SHOULD SAY AND I HEAR THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE THAT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE THE VOTES ANYWAY.

>> Cathy: AND SHE SAYS THEY DO, SO SHE WAS PRETTY STRONG WITH THAT.

>> SHE DID SAY THAT, I HAVE HEARD HER SAY THAT.

I HAVE HEARD THAT THEY DON'T, I THINK THEY SHOULD GIVE ON THAT ONE AND SAY, OKAY, IF THAT WAS THE STICKING POINT WE'RE GOING TO SEAT BRAD TABKE, WE'LL SEE YOU ON MONDAY FOR SESSION.

THE PROBLEM THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE IS THE REPUBLICANS WON A COURT DECISION LAST WEEK THAT PUSHED OFF THE GOVERNOR CALLING A SPECIAL ELECTION, AND THAT MEANS THAT THAT SEAT FROM TODAY IS GOING TO SIT OPEN FOR SEVEN MORE WEEKS, SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT GOING TO SHOW UP FOR SEVEN -- IT'S ONLY BEEN 10 DAYS, DOES IT MEAN NOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SHOW UP FOR SEVEN MORE WEEKS?

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS SHOULD CALL THEIR BLUFF AND SAY WE'RE GOING TO SEAT TABKE, WE'LL SEE YOU ON MONDAY.

>> I DO HAVE EMPATHY FOR LEADER DEMUTH HERE.

BECAUSE WHEN YOU WERE IN THESE CLOSE MARGINS LIKE THIS ONE PERSON, ALL IT TAKES IS ONE PERSON TO UNBALANCE THE CANOE.

AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THIS THING.

MELISSA HORTMAN HAS HELD THIS CAUCUS, PEOPLE ARE OUT DOING THE WORK, THEY'RE OUT IN THEIR DISTRICTS, YOU CAN SEE THAT, BUT LEADER DEMUTH HAS A DIFFERENT PROBLEM, I THINK, AND THAT IS ANY ONE MEMBER CAN UPSET THIS, AND I THINK THAT IS POSSIBLY WHAT SHE'S FACING INTERNALLY.

AND THAT IS HARD BECAUSE THEN YOU CAN'T BE SPEAKER IF YOU LOSE A VOTE.

>> Eric: YOU'VE BOTH TAUGHT US THAT YOU DON'T MAKE UNILATERAL DECISIONS, YOU LISTEN TO YOUR CAUCUS OBVIOUSLY.

>> YOU HAVE TO OR THEY'LL THROW YOU OUT.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Eric: WELL, AND IS I WONDER IN THOSE CAUCUS MEETINGS WITH BOTH SIDES HAVING A LOT AT STAKE, HOW CONTENTIOUS COULD IT BE?

ARE MEMBERS ON THE D.F.L.

SIDE NERVOUS AND ITCHING TO GO BACK?

WHAT'S THE DYNAMICS THERE?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK RIGHT NOW I THINK EVERYBODY'S HOLDING FIRM ON THIS.

>> Cathy: EVEN WITH THE OPTICS, DAY AFTER DAY SEEING KIND OF THE HALF EMPTY CHAMBER.

>> SURE, SEEING HALF OF -- ONE PARTY DOING BUSINESS, YEAH, IT'S BAD FOR EACH OF THEM.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS LIKE A GREAT LOOK FOR EITHER OF THEM.

BUT UNTIL THE REPUBLICANS SAY WE'RE GOING TO HONOR THOSE VOTERS IN SHAKOPEE AND SEAT BRAD TABKE, THEY'RE PRETTY STUCK IN THIS SORT OF CYCLE.

>> Eric: DYNAMICS OF THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS.

>> YEAH, I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME PRESSURE.

I THINK ALSO, AND I HAD DINNER WITH FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER TOM BAKK TONIGHT AND WE REMINISCED ABOUT -- >> Cathy: I BET THAT WAS FUN.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> IT WAS FUN, WE'RE GOOD FRIENDS OF COURSE AND WE REMINISCED ABOUT SOME THINGS BUT HE TAUGHT ME AN IMPORTANT LESSON YEARS AGO VERY EARLY IN MY LEGISLATIVE CAREER.

WHICH WAS AT THE END OF SESSION EVERYBODY HAS TO HAVE A WON AND DON'T MAKE THINGS PERSONAL.

I KIND OF RAN THE TABLE ON SOME NEGOTIATIONS BACK IN '13 AND AFTER THAT HE SAT ME DOWN AND SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T NEED TO GO THAT FAR ON THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE AND I KIND OF REGRETTED DOING IT.

WHAT HAPPENED LAST SESSION WAS THINGS GOT PERSONAL.

DEMOCRATS CALLED THE QUESTION, THEY DIDN'T ALLOW REPUBLICANS TO HAVE ANY INPUT IN ANYTHING AND THAT HAS BEEN MELISSA HORTMAN'S KIND OF DOWNFALL I THINK.

SHE HAS NOT FIGURED OUT HOW TO FIND A WIN IN AN END OF SESSION SITUATION FOR EVERYONE.

>> Eric: AND IT PROBABLY WASN'T UP TO THE EMOCRATS TO BAIL OUT THE DEMOCRATS WHO HAD AN INELIGIBLE CANDIDATE THAT GOT CALLED ON BY THE COURTS.

>> YEAH, RIGHT THERE, I MEAN THAT ISSUE IS REALLY PROBLEMATIC IN ALL OF THIS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I DO WANT TO SAY, THOUGH, MELISSA HORTMAN HAS BEEN THE SPEAKER FOR SIX YEARS.

SHE'S MADE A VERY GENEROUS OFFER TO REPUBLICANS HERE N THIS PERIOD OF TIME THAT LISA DEMUTH CAN BE THE SPEAKER.

SHE'S LANDED SESSIONS VERY WELL.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, LAST YEAR THE DIFFERENCE -- I HAD TO CALL THE QUESTION ONCE.

>> MORE THAN ONCE.

ONE SESSION.

>> NO, I DID IT ONCE AND IT WAS UNCOMFORTABLE >> Eric: IT'S A NUCLEAR OPTION.

>> BUT THAT, REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR WANTED A TAX BILL, WE GAVE IT TO HIM.

LET ME JUST SAY I THINK THEY CAN DO THIS.

I DO STILL BELIEVE IN THESE TWO LEADERS.

THEY HAVE NOT LET THIS BECOME PERSONAL BETWEEN THEM.

WE SAW THOSE IMAGES AT THE CAPITOL BUT I REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT ISA DEMUTH AND MELISSA HORTMAN CAN GET AN AGREEMENT HERE.

>> Cathy: THEY NOW KNOW THAT THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT EACH OTHER WITH THE COURT RULING.

>> WE'RE STILL AT A STANDOFF, AND THE QUESTION NOW IS IF THE REPUBLICANS HOLD THE POSITION THEY'RE IN AND SAY WE JUST WANT YOU TO SHOW UP AND WE WANT TO DO WHAT EVERY OTHER SESSION HAS DONE AT THE BEGINNING WHICH IS ELECT A SPEAKER SO YOU SHOW UP AND WE'LL ELECT A SPEAKER.

DO THE DEMOCRATS NOW SAY NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT, WE WANT TO NEGOTIATE SOMETHING WITH YOU BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS DO HAVE A ONE-SEAT ADVANTAGE AND IF THE DEMOCRATS SHOW UP AND ALLOW A QUORUM, THAT MEANS THE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER WILL GET ELECTED.

OR DO THE DEMOCRATS SAY, NOPE, WE'RE GOING TO HOLD OUT AND NOT SHOW UP FOR SEVEN MORE WEEKS?

WHICH PUSHES THIS PAST DEADLINES AND I MEAN JUST THINK OF THE IMPACTS THAT WILL HAVE ON SESSION.

THEN YOU'RE ALMOST CERTAINLY TALKING ABOUT A SPECIAL SESSION WHICH THEN THE LEGISLATURE ITSELF LOSES POWER AND THE GOVERNOR GAINS MORE POWER.

>> Eric: IT'S GETTIN' GOOD AND WE'RE OUTTA TIME.

>> Cathy: YOU TWO ARE GREAT.