♪♪ >> CATHY: THE "MINNESOTA STAR TRIBUNE" RELEASED A BRAND-NEW NARRATIVE PODCAST THIS MONDAY AND ITS INTRODUCTION GRACED THE COVER OF THE SUNDAY PRINT EDITION.

"GHOST OF A CHANCE" HAS TWO EPISODES NOW AVAILABLE AND WILL DROP A NEW EPISODE EACH MONDAY.

HERE'S A QUICK LOOK.

>> ERIC NEVER INTENDED TO MAKE A PODCAST.

>> MY HOUSE WAS 113 YEARS OLD WHEN I BOUGHT IT WITH MY HUSBAND.

>> THIS IS TANE.

I'M STANDING IN FRONT OF OUR HOUSE THAT WE CLOSED ON YESTERDAY.

>> WHEN HE MOVED INTO HIS HOUSE, HE WAS JUST DOING WHAT HE ALWAYS DID.

>> YOU KNOW, I LOVE HISTORY.

I WRITE ABOUT HISTORY.

LOVE A GOOD WALK THROUGH A CEMETERY.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHO DOESN'T?

I'M THE GUY WHO ALWAYS STOPS IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING TO READ THE HISTORICAL MARKER.

SO, I WAS, LIKE, THIS IS OUR HOUSE NOW.

I MEAN, IT'S LIKE THE STORY OF THIS HOUSE HADN'T BEEN WRITTEN YET, YOU KNOW?

AND I HAD TO GO FIND IT AND PIECE IT TOGETHER.

>> CATHY: JOINING US NOW, TWO OF THE VOICES YOU JUST HEARD.

ERIC ROPER IS A REPORTER FOR THE "STAR TRIBUNE" AND JOINING HIM IS PRODUCER AND NARRATOR, MELISSA TOWNSEND.

>> ERIC, YOU AND I ARE KINDRED SPIRITS, MY FRIEND, YES, I TROMP THROUGH CEMETERIES AND I READ THE HISTORICAL PLACARDS WHEREVER I AM.

I CAN ONLY IMAGINE THE KIND OF DIGGING YOU HAD TO DO ONCE YOU DECIDED THAT YOU WANTED TO KNOW THE HISTORY OF YOUR HOUSE.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, BASICALLY, IT WAS DURING THE PANDEMIC, TOO, SO WE HAD THAT KIND OF TIME.

WE EAR ABOUT PEOPLE'S PANDEMIC PROJECT AND THIS WAS MY PANDEMIC PROJECT, IT REALLY WASN'T CLEAR FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS THAT THERE WAS A COHESIVE STORY HERE.

AND IT TOOK ANOTHER TWO YEARS FOR MELISSA TO MAKE IT INTO A COMPELLING AND GRIPPING STORY.

BUT, YEAH, THERE WAS A LOT OF DIGGING, YOU KNOW, BOTH STARTING AT COMPUTERS, BUT THEN DRIVING ACROSS THE MIDWEST, GOING TO ARCHIVES, ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

>> Eric: WAS IT HARD FINDING STUFF?

DID YOU COME UP EMPTY ONCE IN A WHILE?

>> THERE WAS A LOT OF COMING UP EMPTY, FOR SURE.

I WILL SAY, IF YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO'S INTERESTED IN HISTORICAL RESEARCH OR GENEALOGY TODAY, YOU CAN BE MUCH MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN YOU COULD EVEN A DECADE AGO.

THE "STAR TRIBUNE" ARCHIVES ARE DIGITIZED, ALL THE BLACK NEWSPAPERS ARE DIG TIED, THAT DOESN'T GIVE YOU EVERYTHING BUT IT GIVES YOU A GOOD STARTING PLACE.

>> Eric: WHAT DREW YOU TO THE PROJECT?

>> WELL, YEAH, I HAD INITIAL CONVERSATIONS WITH THE FOLKS AT THE S "STAR TRIBUNE," AND I WAS REALLY INTRIGUED BY ALL THE RESEARCH THAT ERIC HAD DONE, I LISTENED TO 25 HOURS OF RECORDING THAT HE HAD DONE.

>> Eric: WOW.

>> AND THEN FROM THERE, IT WAS OH, SO MANY FASCINATING FACTS AND SCENES AND EXPERIENCES.

>> Cathy: NOW, THIS DEALS WITH A BLACK FAMILY.

DO THEY INITIALLY OWN THE HOUSE?

I MEAN, THE HOUSE IS 113 YEARS OLD.

>> THEY'RE THE SECOND OWNERS.

>> Cathy: SECOND OWNERS, OKAY.

>> YEAH.

>> ERIC: A WHITE PART OF MINNEAPOLIS, WE SHOULD SAY.

>> YES, SO ASICALLY THE ORIGINAL FINDING, WHICH IS BASED OFF OFF OF THE FINDINGS OF MAPPING PLEDGE, WHICH WAS A BLURB ON THE MAP THAT THEY CREATED, THE ROBINSONS WERE PART OF A SMALL WAVE OF BLACK FAMILIES WHO LIVED IN SOUTHWEST MINNEAPOLIS IN THE EARLY 20th CENTURY.

THAT'S NOW THE WHITEST PART OF MINNEAPOLIS, AND ALMOST ALL THOSE FAMILIES WERE GONE BY 1940, INCLUDING THE ROBINSONS AND THEY LIVED IN MY HOME.

IT WAS LIKE, OKAY, WE'RE STARTING THERE.

AND WE ALSO KNEW THAT THERE WAS CONTROVERSY ABOUT THESE FAMILIES IN 1920.

SO, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THE RABBIT HOLE BEGAN AND IT GOT BIGGER AND BIGGER FROM THERE.

>> Cathy: KNOWING YOU, AND YOU HAD TO LISTEN TO ALL OF THAT AUDIO, YOU'RE GOOD AT FERRETING OUT A STORY.

AND WHEN YOU -- HAT WAS THE NUGGET FOR YOU THROUGH ALL OF THOSE HOURS OF AUDIO?

WHEN YOU WENT, AH-HA, THERE IS THE THREAD.

>> I THINK INITIALLY SOME OF THE STUFF THAT STOOD OUT WAS WHAT PEOPLE HEARD IN EPISODE 1, WHICH WERE THE HOMETOWNS OF HARRY AND CLEMENTINE.

AND ERIC WAS WALKING THROUGH A CEMETERY AND TALKING TO A WOMAN WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, I JUST REALLY FEEL THE SPIRITS HERE.

AND I JUST THOUGHT, THAT'S SORT OF THE ETHOS OF THE WHOLE PROJECT, IS JUST, I CAN LOOKS FEEL THE SPIRITS, O BACK, EMBODY THE LIVES OF THESE PEOPLE.

>> Eric: HOW DID GEORGE FLOYD, HIS DEATH AND THE AFTERMATH OF THAT, DID HAT PLAY ANY ROLE IN BRINGING THE STORY TO HE PRESENT DAY?

>> I MEAN, WHILE I WAS WORKING ON THE RESEARCH THAT EVENT HAPPENED.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE ASKING A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT MINNESOTA'S HISTORY WITH RACE IN MINNEAPOLIS -- AND MINNEAPOLIS' HISTORY WITH RACE.

AND AS I WAS WORKING ON IT, I FELT, WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN CONTRIBUTE TO, THAT BUT I'LL DO THIS RESEARCH, SORT OF SEE WHERE IT GOES.

AND I THINK THAT NOW I CAN SORT OF COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT EVENT REFLECTS THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING -- THE UNREST AFTER THE EVENT REFLECTS THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING BREWING BENEATH THE SURFACE AND I THINK IT'S CONNECTED TO SOME OF THE HISTORY OF RACE IN MINNEAPOLIS.

AND I THINK IT'S THE -- AS THE PROJECT OUTLINES, HERE WAS A LOT OF THINGS THERE THAT WERE SURPRISING TO ME, AND I'M SOMEONE WHO FEELS PRETTY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT LOCAL HISTORY, AND, SO, AS I KEPT GOING DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE AND MELISSA GOT ON BOARD, I THINK WE REALIZED THAT THERE'S REALLY A STORY TO TELL HERE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE CITY AND THE STATE.

>> Cathy: WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE ROBINSONS AND THEIR STORY?

>> I LOVE THEM.

[ Laughter ] I JUST KIND OF FELL IN LOVE WITH THEM.

I MEAN, THEY HAD SUCH AMBITION AND RAN INTO SO MANY ROADBLOCKS AND JUST KEPT GOING.

JUST KEPT GOING.

AND THEIR LIVES SHIFTED AND THE POSSIBILITIES FOR THEM SHIFTED OVER TIME.

BUT YOU CAN SEE THEY FOUND JOY AND BUILT A COMMUNITY.

AND JUST LIVED REALLY IMPRESSIVE LIVES.

>> Eric: SOUTHWEST MINNEAPOLIS NEIGHBORS, THEY ORGANIZED A MEETING IN 1920, THAT WAS TO ET BLACKS OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD?

>> YEAH.

SO BASICALLY THERE'S ORT OF TWO KEY POINTS ABOUT THIS MEETING, WHICH WAS ON 43rd AND PILLSBURY IN SOUTHWEST MINNEAPOLIS.

IT WAS 200 PEOPLE GATHERING.

ONE OF THE POINTS, THIS SEEMS TO BE ONE OF HE PRIMARY NEIGHBORHOOD ORGANIZATIONS OF THAT ERA THAT WAS HOLDING THIS MEETING.

AND THEY'RE ASKING, OKAY, HOW DO WE GET RID OF THESE, I THINK, NINE BLACK FAMILIES, THAT'S WHAT WE THINK IS THE NUMBER OF BLACK FAMILIES THAT WAS THERE IN SOUTHWEST.

THE SECOND POINT YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN ON MONDAY'S EPISODE, THAT MEETING REACHED THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE NAACP, AND A FAMOUS HISTORICAL FIGURE BECAME PERSONALLY INVOLVED WITH TRYING TO NEGOTIATE WITH LOCAL BUSINESS LEADERS HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS.

>> Eric: LEAVE IT AS A CLIFFHANGER, DON'T GIVE IT AWAY.

>> Cathy: YOU'RE THE NARRATOR, WHICH IS INTERESTING TO ME, YOU DID A GREAT JOB, BUT YOU'RE KIND OF WALKING ERIC -- YOU'RE WALKING US THROUGH ERIC'S STORY BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE ERIC NARRATE HIS OWN STORY, INTERESTING.

>> WELL, YEAH, I MEAN, WHEN AIR I CAN WAS TELLING ME THE STORY, WHERE HE HAD THE MOST ENERGY, AND THEN THIS HAPPENED, AND THEN THIS HAPPENED, SO WE NEEDED SOMEBODY IN THE STORY TO KIND OF GO, AND LET'S BRING THE AUDIENCE ALONG AND HOLD THE HAND AND INTRODUCE THEM TO HIS PASSION.

I JUST WANTED TO CREATE THE BALANCE.

>> Eric: GOT TO RUN.

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