>> SINGING: HAVE YOURSELF A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS >> Eric: AS MENTIONED EARLIER IN THE HOUR THIS IS OUR LAST SHOW OF 2024 AND POLITICS HAS BEEN THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING THIS CALENDAR YEAR.

SHORTLY BEFORE WE WENT ON THE AIR FRIDAY NIGHT THE U.S. HOUSE VOTED TO KEEP THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FUNDED.

EARLIER TODAY ONE OF TWO ONGOING COURT CASES HERE IN MINNESOTA HAS BEEN RULED UPON, AND THAT RULING COULD IMPACT BALANCE OF POWER IN THE STATE HOUSE.

PLUS NEWS OF A RIFT BETWEEN GOVERNOR WALZ AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR FLANAGAN IS MAKING THE MEDIA ROUNDS THIS WEEK.

PLENTY TO TALK ABOUT.

REPUBLICANS UP FIRST, ANDY BREHM IS A LAWYER WHO SERVED AS A U.S.

SENATOR NORM COLEMAN'S PRESS SECRETARY.

AMY KOCH IS FORMER STATE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, NOW A LOBBYIST.

DEMOCRATS WITH US TONIGHT, JEFF HAYDEN, FORMER SENATOR NOW LOBBYIST.

ROUNDING OUT THE GROUP TONIGHT, ABOU AMARA, FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER TURNED ATTORNEY.

ABOU, YOU READ THE OPINION THAT SAID REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT JOHNSON IN THE ROSEVILLE AREA WAS NOT A RESIDENT IN TIME TO QUALIFY TO BE A CANDIDATE, CAN'T BE SEATED.

WHERE ARE WE?

>> LOOK, I THINK FACTUALLY THERE WAS A LOT IN THAT RECORD SO I THINK HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO STRUGGLE WITH THAT ON APPEAL.

I WILL SAY THIS, THOUGH, IF YOU READ THE SUPREME COURT'S DISCRETIONARY REVIEW DENIAL, IN OTHER WORDS SAYING WE'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR IT RIGHT NOW, THERE WERE TWO WORDS REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND THOSE WORDS WERE TO BASICALLY SAYING THAT THE COURT IS NOT GOING TO -- WITHOUT PREJUDICE, SORRY, OOK ME A LITTLE WHILE.

WITHOUT PREJUDICE, THOSE WORDS ARE IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT MEANS IT'S NOT OVER YET.

THEY COULD HAVE RULED AND SAID WITH PREJUDICE MEANING THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE UP THE DECISION.

THIS IS NOT THE LAST OF THIS ISSUE.

>> Eric: 67-67, CO-DESIGNATED SPEAKERS AND SPEAKER DEMUTH ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE GOT PRESS RELEASES SAYING I'M THE SPEAKER AND WILL BE FOR TWO YEARS.

>> WELL, BECAUSE THE VOTE WILL NOW BE AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO BE SEATED, THE ELECTED CURTIS JOHNSON, SO THE COUNT WILL BE AT THIS POINT 67-66 WHICH MEANS REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE THE MAJORITY AND A SIMPLE MAJORITY ELECTS A SPEAKER AND THAT IS A VERY EXCITING LISA DEMUTH.

>> Eric: I DON'T VET CANDIDATES FOR A LIVING.

>> EITHER DO I -- ACTUALLY, I DO, BUT.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Eric: IT SEEMS TO ME THAT AT LEAST THE SECTION QUESTION WOULD BE DO YOU LIVE IN THE DISTRICT.

>> WELL, YEAH, I MEAN I THINK IT WAS CLEAR THAT Mr. JOHNSON DIDN'T LIVE IN THE DISTRICT AND WAS MOVING TO THE DISTRICT.

HE SAID HE WAS LOOKING FOR HIS FOREVER HOUSE.

COULDN'T FIND IT YET SO HE WAS GETTING AN APARTMENT IN THE DISTRICT, AND WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THAT HE ACTUALLY DIDN'T RESIDE THERE, HE ACTUALLY DIDN'T LIVE THERE IS WHAT THEY'VE SAID.

BUT I DO WANT TO GO TO THE 67-66 KIND OF DEAL.

IF IT STANDS, LEADER DEMUTH COULD BE THE SPEAKER.

BUT SHE'S STILL GOT TO GET 68 VOTES TO PASS BILLS.

SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW THAT NO MATTER HOW IT WORKS, THEY STILL WON'T HAVE ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY PASS BILLS.

>> Eric: ONE OF THE TWITTER PEOPLE SAID IT'S -- IT'S A MAJORITY BUT NOT THE MAJORITY.

>> RIGHT.

>> CORRECT.

>> YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF TECHNICALITIES HERE AND ABOU MAY HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE IN ELECTION LAW THAN I DO, I'M JUST A SIMPLE COUNTRY ATTORNEY.

[ LAUGHTER ] BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO LIVE IN THE DISTRICT TO -- >> Eric: FOR SIX MONTHS.

>> TO REPRESENT.

AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE UTILITIES TURNED ON WHICH THE CANDIDATE DIDN'T, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

DEMOCRATS ARE GETTING SLOPPY.

THEY'VE RUN THE HOW FOR A LONG TIME, THIS, YOU KNOW, I CALL IT A MISTAKE AND DO BETTER NEXT TIME.

TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS IS JUST RIDICULOUS.

>> Cathy: SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

IS THERE IN TERMS OF IS THERE A SPECIAL ELECTION CALLED?

>> THERE WILL BE A SPECIAL ELECTION CALLED BUT IT TAKES AT LEAST SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS TO GET THAT ELECTION DONE.

AND SO THE LEGISLATURE CONVENES ON THE 14TH OF JANUARY AND THEY WILL CONVENE WITH A 67-66 AND THAT IS WHEN YOU VOTE FOR SPEAKER AND IT IS NOT A 68 VOTE TO GET TO SPEAKER, IT IS A SIMPLE MAJORITY TO GET TO SPEAKER BY THE RULES AS THEY HAVE EXISTED FOR AS LONG AS -- >> Cathy: AND CAN THE BODY CHANGE THOSE?

>> YES, BUT YOU NEED 68 VOTES TO CHANGE THE RULES.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

>> AND SO THEY CANNOT CHANGE THE RULES.

AND THEN, SO LET'S SAY PRESUMABLY BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY SAFE DEMOCRAT SEAT, IT'S GOING TO BE A D.F.L.AR THAT WINS THE SPECIAL.

>> IN ROSEVILLE, YEAH.

>> THEN THEY GO BACK TO 67-67 BUT YOU NEED 8 TO ELECT A NEW SPEAKER, THAT IS MY DEMUTH IS SAYING I WILL BE SPEAKER FOR TWO YEARS.

>> THIS IS WHY THE LAWSUIT MATTERS SO MUCH.

THERE'S A LEGAL QUESTION THAT CAN RESOLVE THIS.

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THIS LOWER COURT DECISION GETS OVERTURNED.

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN LITIGATION.

POINT NUMBER ONE.

POINT NUMBER TWO, DEMOCRATS STILL HAVE THE MAJORITY NOW, SOME ARE SAYING, AND I'M NOT SAYING WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS, SOME ARE SAYING THERE SHOULD BE A SPECIAL SESSION THAT SAYS IF YOU'RE A SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE YOU SHOULD HAVE MAJORITY OF THE BODY OF THE HOUSE IF YOU WANT TO SERVE IN THAT ROLE, AND I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE ARGUMENT I THINK MOST MINNESOTANS UNDERSTAND.

>> THAT HASN'T BEEN THE RULE AND HASN'T BEEN THE RULE FOR A VERY LONG TIME, IF THEY GO IN ONE WEEK AHEAD AND CHANGE THE RULES, YOU CAN DO THAT BUT I THINK IT'S A BAD LOOK.

>> IT IS GOING TO BE REALLY HARD AND IT WAS ALREADY GOING TO BE KIND OF GRIDLOCK AND THEY WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO COMANAGE.

I THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS IF THEY WERE TO DO WHAT ABOU SUGGESTED THEY DO, IT WOULD LOOK REALLY BAD.

I THINK IF REPUBLICANS KIND OF OVERREACH IN THE SPEAKER, AND SPEAKER DEMUTH DOESN'T KIND OF ABIDE BY THE CO-GOVERNANCE MODEL EVEN IF SHE HAPPENS TO GET ONE VOTE FOR THE SPEAKER WHEN THEY COME BACK, I THINK SHE'S GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE.

I THINK BOTH GROUPS NEED TO BE REALLY, REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT THE WAY THAT THEY MOVE FORWARD.

IT'S REALLY TENUOUS OVER THERE.

>> WELL, I THINK, I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, THE JOB OF REPUBLICANS IS ULTIMATELY TO BE DOING SOME BLOCKING HERE.

I MEAN, THAT'S -- AND THANK GOODNESS THAT THEY CAN.

>> Eric: THE SENATE IS 34-33 DEMOCRAT.

AND THERE'S A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

SO WHETHER THERE'S A TIE OR THEY HAVE A MAJORITY ULTIMATELY THEY'LL HAVE THE SAME ROLE WHICH IS AN IMPORTANT ONE WHICH IS TO STOP THE DISASTER OF DEMOCRATS DRIVING THE AGENDA FOR SO LONG.

I MEAN, WE'RE LOOKING AT A MAJOR BUDGET DEFICIT THAT HAS TO E ADDRESSED.

AND MUST BE ADDRESSED THROUGH SPENDING CUTS AND REPUBLICANS WILL FINALLY HAVE A VOICE AT THE TABLE TO DO THAT.

>> Eric: WHAT ABOUT THE FRAUD DE JURE THAT WE'RE GETTING FROM THE STATE GOVERNMENT WE'RE GETTING?

I THINK REPUBLICANS HAVE FOUND A RESONATING ISSUE THERE.

>> LOOK, IF YOU LOOK T WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING IN THE COURTS, I THINK THAT'S CLEAR.

YOU REALLY GET TO THE BARE BONES ISSUES, THINGS THAT YOU HAVE LARGE AGREEMENT ON, THIS COULD BE ONE OF THOSE ISSUES.

YOU COULD HAVE BIPARTISAN CONSUCCESSOUS AROUND REFORMS AND HOW MONEY GETS THROWN OUT THE DOOR SO ULTIMATELY WE CAN REDUCE OR ELIMINATE FRAUD IN MINNESOTA.

>> Cathy: SAY, THIS IS GOING TO BE A REALLY INTERESTING SESSION ALREADY.

I'M WONDERING ABOUT THIS REPORTED RIFT BETWEEN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR FLANAGAN AND GOVERNOR WALZ.

AND I'M WONDERING HOW, AND I KNOW THE GOVERNOR KIND OF BRUSHED OFF VAN OOTA SACHAR SAYING IT'S PALACE INTRIGUE, BUT DON'T YOU NEED -- THEY BOTH TOUTED THEMSELVES AS PARTNERS IN GOVERNING, DON'T YOU NEED THESE WO TO BE BUDS HERE GOING INTO THE SESSION?

>> WELL, AND TRADITIONALLY A GOVERNOR AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAVE NOT NECESSARILY BEEN BUDS.

THIS HAS BEEN A VERY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP THAT I THINK WAS MARKED BECAUSE SUDDENLY POST THE PRESIDENTIAL RUN FOR GOVERNOR WALZ, THEY WERE NOT SEEN TOGETHER ANYMORE AND FUNDRAISERS RE BEING ELD THAT ARE FOR JUST GOVERNOR WALZ.

AND SO I THINK THAT RAISED QUESTIONS, WHICH LED TO A REPORTED MEETING THAT TOOK PLACE VERY SHORTLY AFTER THE ELECTION, AND SORT OF INSIDERS TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF BAD -- BAD CONVERSATIONS AND BAD BLOOD.

I THINK IT'S NOT A GOOD LOOK AND -- BUT, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT A GOVERNOR OR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ARE BEST FRIENDS, THAT'S HIGHLY UNUSUAL AND REALLY NOT USUALLY THE CASE.

>> YEAH, I THINK, I MEAN ULTIMATELY PEOPLE DON'T REALLY CARE AND AS AMY SAID IT'S PRETTY COMMON FOR THE GOVERNOR AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR TO GET ALONG.

GOVERNOR WALZ IS IN A VERY UNCOMFORTABLE SPOT RIGHT NOW.

IT'S PRETTY MUCH WELL REGARDED THAT HIS PERFORMANCE AS SECOND IN COMMAND ON THE TICKET WASN'T VERY GOOD.

A POLL CAME OUT TODAY FROM THE E CENTER FOR THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT SHOWING THAT HE PROBABLY HURT THE TICKET EVEN HERE, MOST MINNESOTANS DIDN'T CARE, 25% OF MINNESOTANS FOUND HIM BEING ON THE TICKET O BE A NEGATIVE AND ONLY 24% FOUND IT POSITIVE.

>> IT'S THE CENTER FOR MERICAN EXPERIMENT -- >> WELL, THEY HAD A POLLSTER DO IT.

I THINK IT'S PRETTY WELL REGARDED HE'S -- >> I THINK THAT MIGHT BE JUST A LITTLE HYPERBOLE.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS TO COME BACK AND ESTABLISH HIMSELF AS THE GOVERNOR.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF LEADERSHIP GOING TO BE NEEDED IN THE LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNORS USUALLY HELP WITH THAT.

I THINK IN ADDITION TO THAT THE FRAUD ISSUE IS SOMETHING THAT HE HAS TO, THERE ARE THINGS THAT HE NEEDS TO DO, NEEDS TO TALK TO HIS COMMISSIONERS.

>> THAT IS LARGELY ADMINISTRATIVE, IN FACT, IT IS ADMINISTRATIVE.

>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY -- SO I THINK AN I.G.

BILL IS ON TOP.

>> INSPECTOR GENERAL.

>> INSPECTOR GENERAL, RIGHT, KIND OF BILL.

AND HE NEEDS TO KIND OF FIGURE THAT OUT.

SO I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE IS THAT GOVERNOR WALZ REALIZES HE NEEDS ON GET BACK IN THE STATE ASSERT HIS LEADERSHIP.

>> I THINK HE WILL DO THAT EARLIER EFFECTIVELY IN THE HOUSE.

REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS YOU PRETTY MUCH HAVE A CONFERENCE COMMITTEE AS A BODY AND SO THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE THE ADMINISTRATION TO ACTUALLY ENGAGE EARLIER TO RESOLVE SOME OF THESE CONFLICTS IF WE WANT TO GET DONE BY CONSTITUTIONAL DEADLINE.

>> Eric: EIGHT OR NINE DEMOCRATS FROM SWING DISTRICTS NOW HAVE ORGANIZED AS BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE.

IS THAT NATURE'S WAY OF SAYING WE TOOK TOO MANY TOUGH VOTES IN -- >> WE TOOK TOO MANY.

IT'S NOT SURPRISING IT'S THE SENATE, THEY'RE NOT CFSS UP FOR REELECTION IN TWO YEARS, THIS IS POLITICS, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

ADDITIONALLY THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT NO MORE TAX INCREASES AND I THINK VERY KEY IS ONE OF THOSE BLUE DOGS IS THE TAX CHAIR HERSELF SENATOR ANN REST.

>> WOULD YOU BE A BLUE DOG IN THE SENATE?

>> WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WHEN I GOT THERE, MAYBE WHEN I LEFT, THOUGH.

[ LAUGHTER ] AND WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT SHIFTS RIGHT, AND PEOPLE START TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEIR DISTRICTS ARE AND WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.

OFTEN WHEN YOU'RE IN LEADERSHIP, YOU LOOK LIKE YOU'RE ESTABLISHMENT, LIKE WHEN I LEFT AND I THINK I'M PROGRESSIVE AND STILL FEEL LIKE ONE.

GLANDY.

>> IT'S A LITTLE DISINGENUOUS, EACH ONE OF THOSE SENATORS DURING THE LAST SESSION COULD HAVE BEEN THE JOE MANCHIN AND SAID, HEY, LET'S PUT THE BRAKES ON THIS AND NONE OF THEM DID THAT.

AND NOW THEY'RE READING THE POLITICAL TEA LEAVES AND SEEING MORE OF THE COUNTRY LEANING TO THE MIDDLE.

IT'S DISINGENUOUS AT THIS POINT, EACH ONE OF THEM COULD HAVE PREVENTED IT.

>> Eric: REALLY GOING TO ENJOY 2025.

>> Cathy: IT'S GOING TO BE O