>> ERIC: PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP'S INAUGURATION IS QUICKLY APPROACHING.

THE TRANSITION TEAM HAS BEEN WORKING SWIFTLY AND CREATING SOME CONTROVERSY.

QUICK ACTION AND CONTROVERSY ALSO CONNECTED TO DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE AS DO MUCH AS THEY CAN BEFORE YEAR'S END.

PLENTY TO TALK ABOUT WITH OUR PANEL OF POLITICAL SCIENTISTS.

PROFESSOR MICHAEL MINTA TEACHES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA TWIN CITIES CAMPUS, WHICH IS ALSO WHERE YOU CAN FIND PROFESSOR KATHRYN PEARSON.

A FEW HOURS UP I-35, PROFESSOR CINDY RUGELEY HEADS THE POLITICAL SCIENCE PROGRAM AT THE U OF M'S DULUTH CAMPUS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

PEGGY NOON EVERYONE, PROFESSOR R MnDOT IS SAYING IN THE COLUMN THIS WEEK, DONALD TRUMP ESSENTIALLY IS FUNCTIONING AS THE SITTING PRESIDENT.

IS THAT FAIR?

>> FOR THE MOST PART, I MEAN, CONGRESS, I MEAN, YOU GOT A LAME DUCK.

IT'S A TRANSITION.

THERE'S A LOT OF DEFERENCE TO THE DISPISES EXISTING PRESIDENTS TO THE INCOMING PRESIDENT.

HIS APPOINTMENTS AND ALL THE ACTION -- ACTIVITY ON CAPITOL HILL WHERE THE NOMINEES ARE GOING AROUND.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY HE'S NOT THE PRESIDENT YET.

BECAUSE WE HEAR, YOU KNOW, BIDEN IS GIVING ALL THESE PARDONS AND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING OUT.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART, HE IS SETTING THE DIRECTIONS, WORLD LEADERS ARE LOOKING TO THE PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR THE LEADERSHIP.

>> Eric: THIS IS MORE AN UNUSUAL TRANSITION PERIOD.

GETS NOMINEES AND SO FORTH?

>> RIGHT, AND I MEAN, THERE'S AN OFFICIAL TRANSITION.

HE AIN'T EVEN GONE TO WASHINGTON YET.

HE'S STILL OPERATING OUT OF MAR- A-LAGO.

IT IS DIFFERENT.

MOST OF THE TIME, YOU KNOW, IN A NORMAL TRANSITION, THEY WOULD BE MORE SIT BACK THAN THAT.

>> AND IT'D ALSO DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS EIGHT YEARS AGO, WHEN CLEARLY IN THE 2016 ELECTION, I MEAN, THE TRUMP TEAM SAID, THEY DIDN'T EXPECT TO WIN IN 2016.

AND THAT TRANSITION WAS EXTRAORDINARILY SLOW, AND ROCKY.

AND SO IT'S A REAL DIFFERENCE THAN WE SAW EIGHT YEARS AGO.

>> Cathy: SAY, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE NOMINEES AT THIS POINT?

IT SEEMS THAT MINNESOTA NATIVE PETE HEGSETH HAS REPAIRED SOME OF THIS INITIAL DAMAGE.

AND HE LOOKS LIKE THE GLIDE PATH IS A LITTLE SMOOTHER TO CONFIRMATION THAN IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN.

MAYBE I'M WRONG ABOUT THAT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK IT'S LOOKING MORE SMOOTH THAN IT DID A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, BUT I THINK IT'S STILL AN OPEN QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, WITH 53 REPUBLICAN SENATORS THEY AN AFFORD TO LOSE THREE AND THEN HAVE VANCE BREAK A TIE VOTE.

BUT IF IT'S 50-50, ERNST IS FROM IOWA, SEEMING A LITTLE BIT WARMER, BUT SHE HERSELF HAS TALKED ABOUT HER OWN SEXUAL ASSAULT, AND SO I THINK SHE'S NERVOUS ABOUT THOSE ALLEGATIONS.

AND THEN THERE'S THE DRINKING ALLEGATIONS.

>> Cathy: HOW MANY NO, MA'AM NEILS NORMALLY DOES AN INCOMING GET THROUGH CONGRESS.

ALL OF THEM?

DO WE KNOW?

>> DEPENDS ON HOW CONTROVERSIAL THEY ARE, RIGHT?

YEAH, I MEAN, THERE'S USUALLY DEFERENCE TO THE PRESIDENT.

AND I THINK TRUMP, PEOPLE USING THIS WORD OF SHOCK AND AWE, RIGHT?

HE'S PUTTING THE MOST FAR TO THE RIGHT CANDIDATES AND EVEN WITH SOME OF THESE PERSONAL FAILINGS THAT WOULD NEVER BE NOMINATED OR BE PUT BEFORE THE PARTY AND ASK THEM TO TAKE A VOTE ON THEM, IT'S VERY INTERESTING EVEN WITH MATT GAETZ HOW LONG THE PRESIDENT KIND OF STUCK WITH HIM BEFORE THE PARTY REALLY BASICALLY FORCED HIM LIKE, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT YOU AND TRYING TO POLICE M.A.G.A., BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT THE PARTY AND THE MIDTERMS IN TWO YEARS.

SO EAH, TRUMP IS EALLY PUSHING THE ENVELOPE ON MANY OF THESE NOMINEES.

SO WE'LL SEE WHAT REPUBLICANS DO.

I DON'T THINK MURKOWSKI AND I THINK SUSAN COLLINS WITH HEGSETH, THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO GET THEM TO COME ALONG.

>> Eric: THE PARDONS, PROFESSOR RUGELEY, HUNTER BIDEN WAS VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

WHERE'S IT GOING TO END?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

AND I MEAN, I'VE NOTICED THAT A THE LO OF THEM, PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT ARE IN D.O.J.

ARE SAYING WE WON'T ACCEPT IT.

WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG AND WE WON'T ACCEPT IT.

I EAN, BIDEN PARDONED A COUPLE OF STINKERS, I THINK PEOPLE WOULD SAY VER THE LAST COUPLE, YOU KNOW, THE KIDS FOR SALE JUDGE OR WHATEVER IT WAS.

AN EMBEZZLER OF A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY.

SO HE'S HAD A FEW STINKERS IN THERE AND THERE USUALLY ARE.

THERE HAS BEEN IN RECENT ELECTIONS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ASKING HIM TO DO BLANKET PARDONS AND I THINK -- I THINK IT'LL BE INTERESTING, AND THEY'RE DOING IT BECAUSE OF THE COMMENTS THAT THE THREATS THAT TRUMP MADE DURING THE CAMPAIGN OF INVESTIGATING SO MANY OF THEM.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WITH KASH PATEL, WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Eric: F.B.I.

>> RIGHT.

>> Eric: LOOKING AHEAD TO THE 2025 SESSION, WHEN DOES THE BUDGET AND THE EBT CEILING STUFF COME UP IN THE STRING?

>> IGHT, SO IT COMES UP PRETTY EARLY ON AND OF COURSE THIS IS ALWAYS A PROBLEM FOR REPUBLICAN LEADERS IN THE HOUSE, FOR REPUBLICAN SPEAKERS BECAUSE THERE ARE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS WHO, YOU KNOW, DON'T WANT TO GO ALONG WITH INCREASING ANY SPENDING AND RAISING THE DEBT LIMIT.

ALTHOUGH WITH A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO DO THAT.

BUT THE FREEDOM CAUCUS, YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN A REAL THORN IN THE SIDE OF REPUBLICAN SPEAKERS AND AT THIS POINT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE ABOUT A TWO-VOTE MARGIN.

SO THAT'S EVEN NARROWER THAN THE LAST CONGRESS AND WE AW, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE WENT THROUGH TWO DIFFERENT SPEAKERS IN THE LAST CONGRESS.

>> Eric: IS GRIDLOCK LIKELY?

>> YES.

[ Laughter ] >> Cathy: SHORT ANSWER.

>> YES.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

YOU KNOW, IT'S EASIER WHEN YOU'RE -- THERE'S DIVIDED GOVERNMENT AND YOU CAN KIND OF PLAY THESE GAMES ABOUT HOLDING UP FUNDING.

BUT NOW THAT YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY, YOU CAN'T BLAME DEMOCRATS IF YOU DON'T -- IF YOU CAN'T FUND GOVERNMENT OR GET POLICY PROPOSALS THROUGH.

SO I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO PLAY THAT GAME.

BUT THEN AGAIN, THEY'RE WILD CARDS, RIGHT?

>> WELL, RIGHT.

AND THE OTHER IMPERATIVE IS REPUBLICANS ARE MUCH MORE PREPARED AS I SAID EARLIER THAN THEY WERE EIGHT YEARS AGO, EVEN THOUGH THEIR MAJORITY IS SMALLER, AND THEY ALSO KNOW THEY ONLY HAVE TWO YEARS.

BECAUSE MIDTERM ELECTIONS ALWAYS BENEFIT THE PARTY THAT'S OUT OF POWER.

AND SOMETHING VERY UNUSUAL WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR DEMOCRATS NOT TO TAKE THE HOUSE BACK.

>> Cathy: BECAUSE MIDTERMS ARE NOT RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, BUT THEY'RE COMING UP HERE, WOULD THE GOAL OF THE PRESIDENT TO GET AS MUCH DONE AS POSSIBLE IN THIS TIME PERIOD?

PROFEPROFESSOR RUGELEY?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, GENERALLY THEY TALK ABOUT THE 100 DAYS.

AND ONE OF THE DIFFICULT THINGS AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS BEFORE COMING IN IS WE ALL LOOK AT THINGS -- IN NORMAL TERMS, WHAT WOULD USUALLY HAPPEN.

AND NOTHING'S NORMAL RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, THE APPOINTMENTS ARE NOT NORMAL.

YOU ASK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY THEY USUALLY GET THROUGH.

USUALLY IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET THROUGH, THEY RESIGN.

YOU'RE NOT SEEING THAT THIS TIME.

AND SO, YEAH, AND I MEAN, A LOTS OF WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, HE WANTS 20 DO THROUGH EXECUTIVE ORDER.

AND SO I THINK THE FIRST DAY USER GOING TO SEE HIM FOLLOW THROUGH WITH A LOT OF THINGS.

THE TAX CUTS THAT'S A BIG ISSUE OF HIS.

I THINK HE'LL TRY TO PUSH THOSE THROUGH REALLY QUICKLY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE CUTTING BUDGET THINGS FROM, YOU KNOW, THAT ELON MUSK IS INVOLVED.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE CONGRESSIONAL ACTION.

>> RIGHT, I MEAN GHT RIE NOW, CURRENTLY CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS ARE ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TO HAVE ONE OR TWO RECONCILIATION BILL AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT IS IT'S ONE OF THE ONLY MEASURES IN THE SENATE THAT REQUIRES 51 VOTES.

AND TRADITIONAL YOU'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE AT THE END OF THE BUDGET PROCESS BUT ONCE AGAIN THESE ARE NOT NORMAL TIMES.

>> Cathy: INTERESTING THAT GOVERNOR WALZ IS NOW TALKING TO MINNESOTA MEDIA AND WAS BEING ASKED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER HE IS INTERESTED IN MAINTAINING A NATIONAL PROFILE.

AND I'M URIOUS, HOW DOES THE GOVERNOR -- WHAT DOES THE GOVERNOR NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN A NATIONAL PROFILE?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S -- YEAH, I HEARD THAT INTERVIEW TODAY AND HE SAID HE WANTS TO TRY TO ECORRECT THE MESSAGING OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND HOW DEMOCRATS HAVE LOST MANY OF THAT -- THE BIG LOSSES IN, LIKE, PENNSYLVANIA.

AND SO THEY WANT TO TRY TO BRING MORE OF THAT BACK IN WISCONSIN.

I THINK HE WILL REMAIN ACTIVE ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.

I THINK HE WILL TRY TO PASS -- IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH HERE TO TRY TO ASS SOME OF THESE INITIATIVES IN MINNESOTA.

AND USE THEM AS A MODEL.

BUT I THINK HE WILL STAY ACTIVE.

I THINK HE'LL BE INVOLVED.

HE WON'T SAY THIS IN THE D.N.C.

NEW CHAIR, HE WON'T SAY IT YOU BELIEVELY, BUT I THINK HE'LL BE VERY INVOLVED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PERSON FROM MINNESOTA -- KEN MARTIN, YEAH.

>> Eric: BUT THAT MEANS HE'S NOT WANTING TO OFFEND ANYBODY.

>> YEAH, HE'S GOING TO PULL FOR THE MINNESOTA UY, YOU KNOW THAT.

>> Eric: MAYBE BEHIND THE SCENES.

>> YEAH.

>> OF COURSE HE SHOWED THAT THAT HE COULD BE VERY EFFECTIVE WITH A TRIFECTA, AND THEN HE GOT SO MUCH NATIONAL ATTENTION.

SO NOW I THINK ALL EYES WILL BE ON HIM.

CAN HE BE EFFECTIVE WITHOUT THAT TRIFECTA WITH THIS TIE IN THE HOUSE.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE FIRST TAKE ON BIDEN'S LEGACY?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S GOING TO STRUGGLE LABOR.

I WON'T BE SURPRISED TO SEE IT A LOT LIKE GEORGE W. BUSH'S, WHERE WHEN HE MS. OUT, IT'S NOT GREAT.

BUT AS TIME GOES ON, HE STARTS PICKING UP A BETTER REPUTATION, BETTER VIEWS.

HE ACCOMPLISHED A LOT.

I MEAN, THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL IS A GOOD BILL.

AND IT'S GOING TO CHANGE A LOT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO REATE JOBS AND IT'S GOING TO PROVIDE SERVICES WHERE THEY DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THEM.

SO I MEAN, HE DID ACCOMPLISH A LOT.

YOU KNOW, HE'S -- PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY ALL KINDS OF REASONS FOR THE ELECTION, BUT HIS POPULARITY WAS PART OF IT.

>> Eric: DO WE KNOW IF THIS WAS A REALIGNMENT ELECTION?

>> THIS WAS NOT.

VOTERS VOTED BASED ON THE ECONOMY AND THE FACT THAT THEY DID NOT LIKE JOE BIDEN.

POLITICAL SCIENCE MODELS SHOW THAT IF THE INCUMBENT PRESIDENT, EVEN THOUGH HE WASN'T OOT BALLOT, IF THEIR APPROVAL RATING IS BELOW 50%, IT REALLY SPELLS TROUBLE FOR THE PARTY.

BIDEN'S WAS AT 38% AND PEOPLE WERE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WELL, OBVIOUSLY, WE'VE RUN A LITTLE LONG TONIGHT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE OUR HISTORY SECTION FOR YOU NEXT TIME OR HISTORY QUESTION.

COUPLE OF NOTES BEFORE WE GO.

DON'T FORGET TO TUNE IN TO "REMEMBER THE MAGIC" NEXT TUESDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 P.M. ON TWIN CITIES PBS OR YOU CAN