>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> Eric: COMING UP ON "ALMANAC," MINNESOTA'S JUNIOR U.S.

SENATOR TINA SMITH ALONE SEEK REELECTION.

WE'LL TALK WITH A NATIONAL REPORTER AND OUR POLITICAL SCIENTIST PANEL ABOUT THAT UPCOMING VACANCY AND MARY LAHAMMER SAT DOWN WITH THE OUTGOING ENATOR AS WELL.

>> I'LL HAVE A CANDID CONVERSATION WITH U.S.

SENATOR TINA SMITH ON HER DECISION NOT TO SEEK REELECTION AND ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT HER JOB.

>> I AM ALWAYS EXCITED WHEN THERE ARE WOMEN WHO ARE READY TO LEAD AND WE HAVE A LOT OF REALLY STRONG WOMEN.

>> THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

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DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

♪ ♪ >> Eric: HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY.

PLENTY TO TALK ABOUT TONIGHT AS USUAL, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT IN MINNESOTA, WE'LL TALK WITH A PAIR OF ECONOMISTS AND BIRDCHICK IS HERE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT ELSE?

BIRDS, SPECIFICALLY OWLS.

>> Cathy: YES, BUT WE'LL START WITH THURSDAY'S BIG ANNOUNCEMENT FROM U.S.

SENATOR TINA SMITH SHE WILL NOT BE SEEKING REELECTION IN 2026.

IT'S THE FIRST TIME ONE OF MINNESOTA'S U.S. SENATE SEATS HAS BEEN UP PROPER GRABS SINCE 2006.

A DEEP POOL OF CANDIDATES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE ARE ALREADY EMERGING.

OUR LONGTIME POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER SPOKE WITH SENATOR SMITH ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT HER JOB AND HER UNLIKELY JOURNEY TO ELECTIVE OFFICE.

>> I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO RUN FOR REELECTION TO THE UNITED STATES SENATE.

>> SENATOR SMITH, QUITE THE NEWS YOU ANNOUNCED, I KNOW YOU CITED FAMILY S THE REASON FOR NOT RUNNING AGAIN.

CAN YOU ALSO TALK ABOUT THE TONE, THE POLITICS, THE POLITICAL REALITY, WAS THIS AFACTOR?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I SPENT A LOT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT THIS AND IT REALLY WAS SO MUCH ABOUT THE BALANCE THAT I WANT TO FIND IN MY LIFE OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE ASKED, WELL, WOULD IT HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT IF THE DEMOCRATS HAD, YOU KNOW, RETAINED POWER IN WASHINGTON?

>> RIGHT, RIGHT, MINORITY IS NOT FUN, IS IT?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY DIFFERENT, IT IS NOT FUN AND ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW, I FEEL THAT THERE IS SUCH AN URGENCY AND A DEEP CONCERN ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

BUT AS I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT, THERE WAS NEVER A MOMENT WHERE I SAID, OH, IF WE KEEP THE MAJORITY, IF DEMOCRATS WERE IN CHARGE THEN I WOULD RUN OR NOT, THAT WAS JUST NOT THE WAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS DECISION.

>> WAS IT GOING TO BE A HARD RACE?

THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIR JUST SAID YOU'RE NOT RUNNING, HE SAYS BECAUSE YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE A REALLY TOUGH RACE AND MAYBE NOT WIN AGAIN.

WAS THAT A FACTOR?

IS IS >> NO, NO, HONESTLY NOT.

I FELT CONFIDENT THAT I WOULD WIN THE IF I RAN.

AS YOU KNOW A REPUBLICAN HASN'T WON STATEWIDE IN MINNESOTA SINCE GOVERNOR PAWLENTY'S SECOND TERM I THINK.

AND I HAVE ALWAYS RUN WELL IN MINNESOTA.

I WON BY 8 POINTS AND THEN BY 5 POINTS.

SO I THINK 2026 IS GOING TO BE A GOOD YEAR FOR DEMOCRATS.

IT WAS MUCH MORE MY EXCITEMENT, HONESTLY, ABOUT MAKING SPACE FOR THE NEXT GENERATION, THIS GENERATION OF LEADERS IN MINNESOTA.

>> WELL, EXCITEMENT IS WHAT WAS TRIGGERED WITH YOUR ANNOUNCEMENT.

A LOT OF NAMES.

YOU KNOW HOW RARE AN OPEN U.S. SENATE SEAT IS AND SO MANY NAMES, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR PEGGY FLANAGAN FIRST TO GET IN, GOVERNOR WALZ MAY BE CONSIDERING, CONGRESSWOMAN OMAR.

DO YOU HAVE ANY FEELINGS ABOUT WHO YOU WOULD LIKE TO SUCCEED YOU ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE?

>> NO, MY JOB IS TO LEAVE PLENTY OF ROOM FOR PEOPLE TO PUT TOGETHER CAMPAIGNS AND THAT'S GOING TO BE UP TO THOSE CANDIDATES IF THEY CHOOSE TO BE CANDIDATES AND THE MY.

IF VOTERS TO DECIDE AND I FEEL CONFIDENT WE WILL ELECT A GREAT UNITED STATES SENATOR IN 2026.

BUT THERE'S A LOT OF WATER THAT HAS TO PASS NDER THE BRIDGE BEFORE THEN.

>> ADAM SCHWARZ ANNOUNCED HIS CANDIDACY.

>> ROYCE WHITE WAS ALREADY IN, HE CHALLENGED KLOBUCHAR.

>> AGAIN WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.

LUCKY I'M GLAD I HUNG UP MY PROGNOSTICATOR SPURS IN THIS ROLE SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> TINA SMITH WAY TOO MANY TIMES, WE WILL TO SAY KARIN HOUSLEY A LOT MORE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT GENDER A LITTLE BIT, EVEN OTHER REPUBLICANS WANTING TO GET IN, STATE REPRESENTATIVE KRISTIN ROBBINS TOLD ME SHE'S CONSIDERING IT, STATE SENATOR JULIA COLEMAN.

REGARDLESS OF PARTY DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE FOR A WOMAN BEING IN THE SEAT OR RUNNING?

>> YOU KNOW, MINNESOTA HAS BEEN ONE OF A HANDFUL OF STATES THAT HAS TWO WOMEN SENATORS FOR A LONG TIME.

SO I AM ALWAYS EXCITED WHEN THERE ARE WOMEN READY TO LEAD AND WE HAVE A LOT OF REALLY STRONG WOMEN.

>> LET'S TAKE A MINUTE DOWN MEMORY LANE, I'VE KNOWN YOU FOR DECADES AND I KNEW YOU BEHIND THE SCENES, YOU WERE A SOUGHT-AFTER POLITICAL OPERATIVE UNTIL A GUY MARK DAYTON SAID, HEY, RUN WITH ME AND PUT YOUR NAME ON A TICKET AND THAT WAS YOUR FIRST TIME, WASN'T IT?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY WAS.

I WAS SENDING MARK A MESSAGE JUST LAST NIGHT OR THIS MORNING, WE'VE BEEN IN CONVERSATION TO LET HIM KNOW WHAT MY FINAL DECISION WAS AND I SAID YOU MADE THE AUDACIOUS MOVE TO ASK YOUR CHIEF OF STAFF TO RUN WITH YOU AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND LITERALLY THE FIRST TIME IT WAS SUGGESTED TO ME I THOUGHT IT WAS SUCH A RIDICULOUS IDEA THAT I LAUGHED AND IS WALKED OUT OF THE ROOM.

AND SO I OWE SO MUCH TO MARK DAYTON AND HIS TRUST IN ME AND OUR INCREDIBLE PARTNERSHIP OVER THE SIX YEARS THAT WE SERVED TOGETHER.

>> YEAH, A PARTNERSHIP THAT GOT YOU TO THE U.S. SENATE.

WE SHOULD REMIND FOLKS -- >> ABSOLUTELY.

>> MEMORY LANE, IT WAS A TOUGH TIME FOR DEMOCRATS AND MINNESOTA IN THE NATION WHEN SENATOR FRANKIN RESIGNED AND GOVERNOR HAD APPOINTMENT POWER.

HOW DID YOU FEEL INITIALLY WHEN HE TURNED TO YOU THAT TIME ND SAID, OKAY, ANOTHER JOB TO YOU YOU.

>> MINNESOTA'S NEXT UNITED STATES ENATOR, TINA MID.

>> IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE I HAD NEVER HAD AN ASPIRATION TO SERVE IN THE SENATE.

AMY AND AL WERE THERE, AND NEVER ENVISIONED AN OPENING SO I WAS SORT OF STUNNED BY THE IDEA AND THERE WAS A THINKING WE HAD TO DO VERY QUICKLY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROCESS WAS.

AND FOR ME THE BIGGEST LEAP WAS SAYING, OKAY, YOU'RE GOING TO RUN AND SERVE IN THE SENATE, YOU'RE GOING TO SERVE IN THE SENATE, YOU HAVE TO IMMEDIATELY ASK THE MINNESOTA VOTERS TO HIRE YOU, TEN MONTHS LATER, AND THEN YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO RUN AGAIN TWO YEARS AFTER THAT.

>> VERY UNUSUAL SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES FOR A SENATOR.

>> EXTREMELY UNUSUAL, FOR SOMEBODY WHO HAD NEVER, HONESTLY, LET'S BE HONEST I HAD RUN AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR BUT THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT FROM BEING A PRINCIPAL ON THE BALLOT AND THE WAY THAT YOU ARE WHEN YOU'RE A SENATOR SO I HAD TO REALLY FIGURE OUT WHETHER I THOUGHT I COULD DO IT, WHETHER I COULD BE SUCCESSFUL AND WHEN I CONCLUDED THAT I COULD, THEN IT DID FEEL A LITTLE LIKE JUMPING OFF A TALL BUILDING.

>> LOOKING BACK, WHAT ARE YOUR SUCCESSES, WHAT ARE OU MOST PROUD?

IS IS >> I'M VERY PROUD OF THE WORK THAT I'VE DONE TO PROTECT THE BOUNDARY WATERS, EXPAND CLEAN ENERGY IN MINNESOTA AND I'M GOING TO BE FIGHTING REALLY HARD TO PROTECT THE PROGRESS THAT WE'VE MADE OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS WITH THIS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

I'VE DONE WORK ON IMPROVING MATERNAL HEALTH IN RURAL COMMUNITIES AND THAT'S BEEN IMPORTANT BUT I THINK MAYBE THE THING I'M MOST PROUD OF IS THE WORK I'VE DONE AROUND MENTAL HEALTH.

>> ON THE FLIP SIDE WHAT ARE YOUR BIGGEST CONCERNS AND WORRIES NOW, THERE'S SO MUCH UPHEAVAL IN WASHINGTON.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE FOLKS WITH ON THAT?

>> THERE'S SO MUCH, THERE'S SO MUCH RIGHT NOW.

I AM JUST GOING TO DO EVERYTHING I CAN TOE MAKE SURE THAT THE LAWS OF THIS LAND ARE FOLLOWED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND THAT WE DO EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN TO PROTECT PEOPLE, PROTECT THEIR SAFETY AND THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR WELL BEING.

UNDERSTANDING THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE VOTES TO STOP WHAT DONALD TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE DOING, BUT I THINK WE CAN HELP TO RAISE THE ALARM AND I THINK WE CAN DO EVERYTHING, WE HAVE TO O EVERYTHING WE CAN TO HELP PROTECT PEOPLE'S POCKETBOOKS AND THEIR HEALTH AND WELL BEING.

♪ ♪ >> Cathy: JOINED RIGHT NOW BY NATIONAL REPORTER AND MINNESOTA NATIVE JOHN MCCORMICK.

HE'S BEEN FOLLOWING THE STORY FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL WHERE HE OVERS NATIONAL POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, JOHN.

WELCOME BACK.

>> THANK YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

HAPPY VALENTINE'S TO BOTH OF YOU.

>> AND TO YOU AS WELL, JOHN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LET'S TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT TINA SMITH AND THE FACT THAT THE SENATOR HAS DECIDED NOT TO RUN FOR REELECTION AND AS YOU HEARD IN THAT PIECE A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS ARE INTERESTED IN LEAPING IN.

GOVERNOR WALZ'S NAME KEEPS POPPING UP HERE.

WHY MIGHT IT MAKE ENSE FOR HIM TO RUN FOR U.S. SENATE?

>> WELL, ONE THING ON SMITH THAT I'LL JUST SAY BEFORE I ANSWER YOUR REAL QUESTION THERE, SHE DID SOMETHING UNUSUAL FOR A MEMBER OF THE SENATE, WHICH IS TO LEAVE THAT CHAMBER ON HER OWN WILL IN HER 60s.

THERE'S A LOT OF OLD SENATORS, YOU LOOK AT CHUCK GRASSLEY, JUST SOUTH OF YOU GUYS IN IOWA, HE'S GOT A COUPLE DECADES ON HER.

SO SHE'S JUST A KID IN TERMS OF AGE HEN IT COMES TO THE U.S. SENATE SO IT'S VERY UNUSUAL FOR SOMEBODY TO GET OUT AT THAT AGE.

ON YOUR QUESTION ON WALZ, I WANT TO BRING YOU GUYS THE LATEST, FRESHEST NEWS POSSIBLE, SO I MADE A COUPLE PHONE CALLS AND TEXTS EARLIER TODAY, AND IT'S SOUNDING LIKE HE IS PROBABLY LEANING AGAINST GETTING INTO THE SENATE RACE.

HE'S PROBABLY MORE LIKELY TO RUN FOR THE JOB THAT HE HAS RIGHT NOW THAN RUN FOR THE SENATE.

SO I THINK HE WANTED TO PUT HIS HAND UP AND HAVE SOME TIME TO THINK ABOUT THIS AND I'M TOLD THE DECISION IS NOT MADE ET, BUT HE'S PROBABLY LESS LIKELY TO TRY TO GET TO WASHINGTON THAN TO STAY IN ST. PAUL.

>> Cathy: I WONDER IF HE WAS MAYBE, OF COURSE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR FLANAGAN WAS QUICK TO JUMP RIGHT IN, I WONDER IF THAT KIND OF HE LOOKED AT THAT ND THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE NOT.

>> YEAH, YOU GUYS WOULD KNOW SORT OF THE STORYLINE BETWEEN THOSE TWO BETTER THAN I WOULD.

I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF SORT OF AWKWARDNESS IN RECENT MONTHS IN THEIR RELATIONSHIP SO IT DID SOUND LIKE SHE GOT OUT VERY QUICKLY, SORT OF PULLED THE TRIGGER ON ANNOUNCEMENT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.

AND, YOU KNOW, HE SENT SOME SIGNALS THAT HE WAS RAISING HIS HAND POTENTIALLY AS WELL TO BE CONSIDERED BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S LESS IKELY TO HAPPEN THAN FOR HIM TO RUN FOR A THIRD TERM WHICH WOULD ALSO BE FAIRLY UNUSUAL THERE.

>> Eric: REPUBLICANS ARE EXPECTED TO RETAIN THE SENATE MAJORITY AFTER THE '26 ELECTION ACCORDING TO THE TIP SHEETS I'VE READ THIS WEEK.

HOW MUCH WILL THIS RACE COMING UP WITH AN OPEN SEAT DRAW ATTENTION?

>> YEAH, I >> YEAH, I THINK IT WILL GET SOME ATTENTION.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A STRETCH TO CALL MINNESOTA A PURPLE STATE ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES IT DOES GET CALLED A PURPLE STATE.

I THINK THERE WILL BE A LOT MORE ATTENTION ON MICHIGAN WHERE GARY PETERS, A DEMOCRAT ANNOUNCED THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO RUN IN 2026, THAT'S A REAL BATTLEGROUND STATE, THERE'S GOING TO BE MASSIVE MONEY THAT WILL BE SPENT THERE ON THAT RACE.

SO I THINK FOR THE DEMOCRATS, THAT'S A BIGGER DEFEND TURF TERRITORY AND PROBLEM THAN MINNESOTA.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN OPEN SEAT, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

IT DEPENDS ON SORT OF WHERE THE ECONOMY IS AT, WHERE THE MOOD OF THE COUNTRY IS AT, HOW TRUMP IS DOING AT THE TIME, AND SO THERE WILL BE RESOURCES THAT WILL BE DEFINITELY SPENT ON THAT RACE AND YOU GUYS, REFRESH MY MEMORY BUT I THINK THE PRIMARY IS PRETTY LATE, I THINK IT'S LIKE AUGUST.

>> Eric: AUGUST, YEAH.

>> OF 2026, SO YOU HAVE IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY, VERY INTENSE PRIMARY WITH A LOT OF DEMOCRATS PROBABLY AND A VERY BRIEF GENERAL ELECTION.

>> Eric: THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE ABOUT TO ENTER THE KEN MARTIN ERA AND I WONDER HOW YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE RECEIVED BY THE POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT INSIDE THE BELTWAY.

>> YEAH, UNLIKE TIM WALZ WHO DIDN'T GET HIS NATIONAL TICKET PUNCHED, KEN MARTEDIN DID.

AND I WAS AT HIS ELECTION IN SUBURBAN WASHINGTON A COUPLE WEEKS AGO AND I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE CLOSER AND NOBODY REALLY EXPECTED HIM TO WIN ON THE FIRST BALLOT, BUT HE DID.

AND SO HE'S IN A POWERFUL POSITION FOR THE DNC AND TO BE A MESSENGER FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

YOU NOW, HE HAD REALLY WORKED THE INSIDE GAME ON THAT.

I MEAN, HE KNEW PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND ALL THE STATE PARTIES, BEEN TO SO MANY RUBBER CHICKEN DINNERS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, BEEN TO WYOMING AND ALASKA AND COURTING PEOPLE FOR THIS POTENTIAL MOMENT FOR A LONG TIME.

BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE SURPRISED, PEOPLE THOUGHT EN WICKLER FROM NEIGHBORING WISCONSIN WAS GOING TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A COMPETITIVE RACE THAN IT TURNED OUT TO BE BUT MARTIN JUST SORT OF BLEW IT AWAY ON THE FIRST BALLOT.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

JOHN, I WISH WE HAD MORE TIME.

THANKS, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: GOING TO HEAD TO THE COUCH IGHT NOW TO CHAT WITH OUR NEXT GUESTS.

WE'LL SEE YOU THERE IN A FEW SECONDS.

♪ >> Eric: DID YOU, DOES YOUR VALENTINE'S DAY CHOCOLATE COST A LITTLE EXTRA THIS YEAR?

INFLATION COULD BE THE REASON.

IT'S UP 3% FROM LAST JANUARY.

LAYOFFS HAVE BEGUN FOR SOME FEDERAL WORKERS IN INCLUDING SOME IN MINNESOTA AND MOVING TARGETS ON TARIFFS HAVE ADDED TO THE MIX.

HERE TO SORT THROUGH THE ECONOMY WITH US, KRISTINE WEST, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT ST. CATHERINE UNIVERSITY.

AND LOUIS JOHNSTON, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT THE COLLEGE OF ST. BENEDICT AND ST. JOHN'S UNIVERSITY.

PROFESSOR, WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF ALL THE TURMOIL THAT'S GOING ON?

>> TURMOIL IS NOT WHAT WE LIKE IN THE ECONOMY.

WE LIKE THINGS THAT ARE PREDICTABLE AND STEADY AND CAN BE COUNTED ON, GENERALLY I THINK UNCERTAINTY IS NOT ANYBODY'S FRIEND INCLUDING FOR THE WORKFORCE.

>> Cathy: I WONDER, HIRING, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE WORKFORCE.

HIRING HAS SLOWED, DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU?

>> YEAH, THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS AROUND 4% WHICH IS PRETTY HEALTHY.

I DON'T HAVE IKE MAJOR CONCERNS AROUND THAT.

RIGHT NOW I THINK YOU TEED UP A COUPLE THINGS ABOUT PRICED AND INFLATION THAT PROBABLY GETTING A LOT MORE ATTENTION RIGHT NOW THAN THE JOBS NUMBERS.

>> Eric: INFLATION WAS A PROBLEM FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN.

>> DEFINITELY.

>> Eric: PROBLEM NOW FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> WELL, I WOULD THINK SO SINCE IT'S HIGHER BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE - HE SAID DURING THE CAMPAIGN THAT NOT ONLY WAS HE GOING TO SLOW INFLATION DOWN BUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO BRING PRICES ACTUALLY DOWN.

SO THAT ISN'T HAPPENING YET.

I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THE HIRING AND THE EMPLOYMENT TOO, THE FED IS IN THIS SITUATION WHERE THEY NEED TO BE CAREFUL NOW BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT INFLATION A LITTLE HIGHER THAN THEY WANT IT BUT UNEMPLOYMENT'S ABOUT WHERE THEY DO WANT IT.

SO THEY HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL RIGHT NOW ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO IN TERMS OF INTEREST RATES.

THE >> Cathy: HOW MIGHT THAT SITUATION BE A LITTLE TRICKIER WITH THE MASS LAYOFFS OF SO MANY FEDERAL EMPLOYEES?

>> THAT -- I MEAN, AS KRISTINE SAID A MOMENT AGO, UNCERTAINTY.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH BUSINESSES JUST KIND OF FREEZING AND SAYING, WELL, WE NEED TO SEE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE.

AND SO INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING, WOW, THERE'S THESE REALLY QUALIFIED FEDERAL WORKERS THAT WE COULD JUST SNAP UP, THEY'RE GOING TO JUST HOLD BACK FOR A WHILE AND JUST SAY WE NEED TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING.

>> Cathy: PROFESSOR WEST, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THAT?

>> AGREE.

I THINK SOME OF THE WHEN YOU GET INTO THE WEEDS ON THE NUMBERS BUSINESS INVESTMENT WAS A LITTLE BIT SOFTER.

IT LOOKS LIKE MAYBE PEOPLE ARE WAITING OUT THE UNCERTAINTY.

I THINK WE DO THIS WITH OUR HOUSEHOLD DECISIONS, WAIT OUT UNCERTAINTY AND THINK ABOUT MAYBE WE'RE NOT SURE ABOUT THAT PURCHASE AND THINK WE'RE SEEING BUSINESSES DO THE SAME THING.

>> Eric: ARE ECONOMISTS OF ONE MIND ABOUT THE TARIFFS?

>> YEAH, ECONOMISTS ARE PRETTY - UNIFIED THAT TARIFFS INCREASE PRICES.

WE CAN HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT HOW MUCH OR WHERE THAT FALLS BUT I THINK TARIFFS IS GOING TO HAVE AN EFFECT.

>> YEAH, THE THING THAT CONCERNS ME IS THIS IS BREAKING 80 YEARS OF POLICY IN THE UNITED STATES.

EVER SINCE THE SECOND WORLD WAR WE HAVE BEEN ON A DETERMINED COURSE TO TRY TO LOWER TARIFFS, MAKE TRADE EASIER, TO TRY TO EXPAND IT, MAYBE EVEN 90 YEARS, SINCE THE MID '30s.

THIS WAS A SHARP BREAK WITH THAT AND AS WE ALREADY MENTIONED ABOUT UNCERTAINTY IT'S GOING TO CREATE MORE UNCERTAINTY, IT'S GOING TO CREATE MORE DIFFICULTY IN THE GLOBAL ECONOMY AND IF I WAS A BUSINESSPERSON, I WOULD NOT WANT THAT ON MY PLATE ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE THAT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

>> Cathy: I WONDER HOW DIFFICULT THIS IS FOR CERTAIN SECTORS AND I'M WONDERING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR BECAUSE THAT IS AN AREA THAT TARIFFS, IMMIGRANT WORKERS.

>> MM-HMM, YES.

>> Cathy: ALSO THINKING ABOUT THE MARKETS WERE ALREADY REALLY DIFFICULT TO BEGIN WITH.

>> I'D BE REALLY -- I'D BE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE IT'S NOT CLEAR WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO PICK VEGETABLES, TO WORK IN DAIRY FARMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

ARE THE MARKETS FOR SELLING THE THINGS, THAT YOU'RE PRODUCING GOING TO BE THERE OR ARE THE TARIFFS GOING TO HURT THAT?

AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT YOU'VE GOT FARM PRICES HAVE BEEN KIND OF SHAKY.

AND SO YOU'VE GOT ALL OF THAT MIXED TOGETHER, THAT WOULD WORRY ME A LOT.

>> Eric: DO WE HAVE A DEFINITION OF TRUMP-ONOMICS YET?

DO WE KNOW WHAT THE POLICY IS WRIT LARGE?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE STILL WAITING TO SEE WHAT IS TALK AND WHAT IS ACTUAL POLICY.

AND SO AS WE SEE ACTUAL POLICY TAKE EFFECT, THEN THAT CAN BE THE DEFINING FEATURE.

>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S KIND OF A GRAB BAG RIGHT NOW.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU MIGHT ASK THAT QUESTION TONIGHT AND I WAS THINKING WE'VE GOT SOME POLICIES THAT ARE PULLING IN ONE DIRECTION, WE'VE GOT OTHER POLICIES THAT ARE PULLING IN OTHERS, AND SO RIGHT NOW THERE ISN'T A CLEAR DIRECTION FOR WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO MAYBE EXPAND THE ECONOMY IF WE KEEP TAX CUTS, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT THEN IF YOU SLAM TARIFFS ON, THAT'S GOING TO SLOW THINGS DOWN.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO RESTRICT IMMIGRATION, THAT'S GOING TO HURT LABOR MARKETS, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THINGS TO REDUCE TAXES ON LABOR, THAT'S GOING TO -- I MEAN, IT'S PULLING IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

>> Cathy: THEN WHAT DOES, SAY, THE FED DO WITH THIS -- >> I SHOULDN'T LAUGH.

>> Cathy: WITH THIS -- MESS.

>> HOLD STEADY I THINK RIGHT NOW.

JUST KIND OF SAY, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE NOT GOING TO RAISE, NOT GOING TO LOWER.

>> Eric: AND SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS IS BAD?

THEY'RE LINKING UP -- THE HOUSE IS LINKING UP THE DEPTH OF THE SPENDING CUTS TO HOW MUCH THE TAX CUT WILL BE AND TRY TO PERSUADE PEOPLE TO CUT SPENDING AND THEN GET A BIGGER TAX CUT.

>> YEAH, THIS IS AN OLD CONVERSATION IN ECONOMICS, RIGHT?

AND WE COULD HAVE A LONG CONVERSATION ABOUT SUPPLY SIDE AND DEMAND SIDE BUT GENERALLY GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS AN EXPANSIONARY USE OF FUNDS, LIKE IT HELPS ECONOMIC GROWTH.

LIKE THE DOLLARS THAT WE SPEND FROM OUR TAXES ON THINGS LIKE RESEARCH OR INVESTMENTS IN OUR FUTURE, ON OUR SCHOOLS AND THE LIKES.

AND SO I TEND TO THINK THAT THE CUTS ARE PROBABLY GOING TO DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

>> Eric: WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK.

>> Cathy: AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT PENNIES THE NEXT TIME.

>> OH, YEAH, WE FORGOT PENNIES.

>> TWO CENTS FOR EVERY ONE.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Eric: THANKS, PROFESSORS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Eric: APPRECIATE IT.

♪ ♪ >> AGRICULTURE, SINCE THE FOUNDING OF MINNESOTA, HAS HELD A VERY SPECIAL PLACE HERE.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT I THINK PERSONALLY IS A VERY BIPARTISAN BILL THAT PEOPLE ARE ALL COMMITTED TO BECAUSE IF YOU EAT, YOU'RE INVOLVED IN AG.

AND IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT'S CONSTANTLY CHANGING AND EVOLVING BUT IT STILL COMES DOWN TO PEOPLE EATING AND PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO OUR COMMUNITY AND WE JUST HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HELP WITH THAT.

AND I HONESTLY THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE'LL BE ABLE TO WORK THROUGH THIS YEAR.

WE GOT TO BUILD RELATIONSHIPS, WE GOT TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO PEOPLE, AND REALLY, YOU KNOW, GET TO KNOW PEOPLE ON A ONE ON ONE BASIS BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHERE POLICY GETS MADE AND THAT'S WHERE WE CAN FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING TO WORK AND WHAT ISN'T GOING TO WORK.

OF ANYTHING THAT I DO THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FORWARD DOWN TO WORK.

♪ ♪ >> Cathy: EARLIER THIS WEEK MONDAY SPECIFICALLY A GROUP OF PARENTS WERE AT THE HALLIE Q.

BROWN COMMUNITY CENTER.

THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION WAS THE CLOSING OF WHAT WAS POSSIBLY THE STATE'S OLDEST EARLY LEARNING CENTER.

IT'S THE LATEST CLOSING, BUT IT WON'T BE THE LAST, AS WORKER SHORTAGES CONTINUE TO PUT PRESSURE ON SUCH CENTERS AROUND THE STATE.

BETTY ROBERTS -- BENNY ROBERTS JOINS US TONIGHT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HALLIE Q.

BROWN COMMUNITY CENTER.

SO NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> NICE TO BE HERE, THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: WELL, NOW, WHAT HAPPENED?

WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> WE'VE EXPERIENCED A LOT OF TRANSITION, I MYSELF AM A NEW EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR IN THE ORGANIZATION, SEVENTH IN OUR 96-YEAR HISTORY.

BUT AS WE HAVE ENTERED THIS STAGE, THERE'S JUST BEEN A LOT OF DIFFICULTY WITH HIRING QUALIFIED STAFF WHO ARE CREDENTIALED TO HELP SUPPORT AND EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN.

>> Cathy: AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT EARLY CHILDHOOD, WE'RE NOT REALLY TALKING ABOUT A DAY CARE, ARE WE?

>> NO, NO.

THEY'RE VASTLY DIFFERENT.

VERY MUCH MORE INTENTIONAL IN THE WAY THAT CHILDREN ARE DEVELOPED AND SUPPORTED IN THEIR PREPARATION FOR GRADE SCHOOL.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU NEED TO GET BACK OPEN AND THRIVING?

>> YEAH, SO WHAT WE NEED IS ACTUALLY A STRONGER ABOR MARKET RIGHT NOW AND THERE'S BEEN TRENDS NOT JUST IN THE STATE BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY POST PANDEMIC AND EVEN CONTINUING MUCH MORE STRONGLY SINCE THEN WHERE PEOPLE ARE GETTING OUT OF THE FIELD.

IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT FIELD O THRIVE IN.

THERE'S A LOT OF FAMILY CFSS FAMILIES THAT JUST DON'T HAVE THE EDUCATION, THE CREDENTIALS, THERE ARE PATHWAYS FOR IT, BUT SYSTEMATICALLY IT'S VERY CHALLENGING ACTUALLY TO SUPPORT EARLY LEARNING CENTERS.

>> Cathy: I'M SENSING THAT THIS IS MAYBE A STATEWIDE PROBLEM.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE WERE SHOCKED ON MONDAY WHEN WE HAD OUR GATHERING THERE AT HALLIE Q.

BROWN.

WE WERE EXPECTING ABOUT 10 TO 15 PEOPLE AND WE HAD OVER 50 THERE.

ESPECIALLY WE HAD ELECTED OFFICIALS, MANY REPRESENTATIVES AND LEADERS OF EARLY CHILDHOOD SPACES, CONCERNED PARENTS, AND THIS TREND IS NOT UNFAMILIAR TO ANYBODY ELSE, LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SEEING PEOPLE LEAVE THE FIELD, BURN OUT, LOOK FOR BETTER PAYING JOBS.

>> Cathy: SO WHAT ARE THE KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES GOING TO DO THEN?

>> FORTUNATELY I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO HELP SUPPORT AND NAVIGATE FAMILIES.

BY THE TIME WE CLOSED OUR CENTER WE DID PLACE EVERY FAMILY IN THE COMMUNITY WITH A CENTER THAT HELPS THEIR CHILD THRIVE AS WELL.

>> Eric: WHAT KIND OF SERVICES AND CURRICULUM DO YOU PROVIDE FOR THE KIDS?

>> YEAH.

SO WE WERE USING A CREATIVE CURRICULUM, AND EVERY CURRICULUM KIND OF HAS THEIR OWN DYNAMIC TO IT.

THE ONE WE WERE USING JUST KIND OF HELPS KIDS NAVIGATE INTO THEIR PERSONAL GENIUS WHILE LEARNING SOME OF THE ACADEMIC RIGOR.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE AGE RANGE?

>> SO WE HAD INFANTS, PRESCHOOLERS, TODDLERS, AND SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN.

SO FROM SIX WEEKS TO 12 YEARS.

>> Cathy: I WONDER, AS YOU SAY THIS IS A TOUGH FIELD.

COULD YOU COMBINE EFFORTS WITH OTHER NON-PROFITS?

>> WE TRIED THAT.

WE TRIED, I MEAN, WE TURNED EVERY ROCK AS FAR AS TRYING TO FIND CREATIVE WAYS AND SOLUTIONS TO MAINTAIN THE FIELD OR EVEN PARTNER WELL.

AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY ALL KIND OF LED TO A DIFFERENT DEAD END FOR US.

>> Cathy: IS THERE A WAY THAT THE STATE -- NOW, THIS IS NOT PROBABLY THE BEST BUDGET SESSION TO ASK FOR MONEY, BUT IS THERE SOMETHING THAT THE STATE MIGHT DO?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO RAISE A LOT MORE AWARENESS FOR JUST THE SYSTEMIC FLAW CFSS FLAWS IN THE -- STATE BUT ALSO ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH SCHOLARSHIPPING, WITH STAFFING, DEVELOPMENT PIPELINES AND WAYS TO REALLY WRAP AROUND OUR CHILDREN BECAUSE THIS IS A PRIORITY THAT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY.

>> Eric: YOU'RE COOKIN' UP SOMETHING WITH A SISTER ORGANIZATION IN NORTH MINNEAPOLIS?

>> YES.

THAT'S TRUE.

>> Eric: TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> YEAH, SO DURING THE DISCERNMENT PROCESS, BEEN WEARING MANY HATS.

BUT I FOUND A PARTNER, OLU'S BEGINNINGS, A CHILDCARE PROVIDER IN NORTH MINNEAPOLIS THAT IS ACTUALLY THRIVING AND LOOKING TO EXPAND.

AND SO WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING OUT A DEAL WITH THEM TO BRING THEM TO HALLIE Q.

BROWN AND HAVE THEM OPERATE THE SERVICE AND PARTNER WITH THEM FOR THE WRAPAROUND AND HOLISTIC SERVICES WE OFFER AT OUR CENTER.

>> Cathy: SO YOU ARE NEW DIRECTOR OF OF THE HALKE EQUIPMENT CFSS EQUIPMENT BROWN CENTER NON-PROFIT AND THIS IS A TOUGH ATMOSPHERE THAT WE HAVE NOWADAYS.

HOW'S YOUR JOB BEEN?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, IT'S TREMENDOUSLY DIFFICULT BUT I ACTUALLY DO FEEL LIKE I'M IN MY CALLING.

I'M A THIRD GENERATION HALLIE Q.

BROWN PARTICIPANT AND RONDO DESCENDENT, I KNOW HE HISTORY OF THE ORGANIZATION BUT ALSO ITS IMPORTANCE SO I'M LOOKING TO PUSH US FORWARD IN A SPACE WHERE WE CAN THRIVE, BUT WE HAD TO STEP BACKWARDS TO DO IT.

>> Eric: WISH YOU LUCK AND GLAD YOU CAME OVER TO TELL US ABOUT IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING.

YOU GUYS TAKE CARE.

>> Cathy: APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ >> SMASHING UP BANANAS AND A LITTLE SALT AND EPIFFER, SPRINKING SHREDDED CHEESE ON TOP AND POPPING IT IN THE MICROWAVE FOR A FEW SECONDS AND PASSING IT OFF AS EGGS TO MY CHILDREN FOR BREAKFAST IS DIVEOL CAL WORK BUT SOMEBODY'S GOING TO TO DO IT.

HAVE YOU SEEN THE COST OF EGGS LATELY?

I BROUGHT THE DOZEN I HAD IN THE FRIDGE TO THE STUDIO WITH ME.

MY CHILDREN CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH SOMETHING THIS PRECIOUS AND EXPENSIVE.

I WOULD RATHER LET THEM PLAY DRESSUP IN MY TIFFANY'S JEWELRY AND USE MY GOOD CHURCH WIGS THAN TO LEAVE EGGS UNGUARDED AT MY HOUSE.

NOW, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT Y'ALL BUT I'VE BEEN PRESSED TO FIND WAYS TO KEEP UP WITH THE RISING COST OF EVERYTHING.

INSTEAD OF TAKING OUT A SECOND MORTGAGE ON MY HOUSE TO FILL UP THE GAS TANK, OR GETTING A PAYDAY LOAN TO PAY FOR A LOT OF OF BREAD, I GOT A SECOND JOB AT WCCO RADIO.

THEN A THIRD JOB AT THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

THEN A FOURTH JOB USING MY OWN COMPANY TO DO SOME PROMOTIONS WORK.

AND A FIFTH JOB WHERE I DO PUBLIC SPEAKING AT EVENTS AND FUNDRAISERS.

AND EVEN THAT AIN'T ENOUGH TO PAY FOR A FULL BASKET OF HOUSEHOLD ESSENTIALS AND FOOD EVERY WEEK!

BUT THEN I SAW A SIXTH JOB.

YEAH, MM-HMM.

THAT MIGHT HELP ME GET BACK IN THE BLACK FINANCIALLY.

NOW, WORD ON THE STREET IS THAT TINA SMITH IS RETIRING HER U.S. SENATE SEAT AND IT'S UP FOR GRABS.

NOW, I DID SOME RESEARCH AND GOOGLE SAYS THE JOB PAYS ABOUT $170,000.

AND YOU NLY HAVE TO WORK THREE DAYS A WEEK!

NOW, IF I ADD THAT TO THE FITTY-LEVEN OTHER JOBS I GOT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO AFFORD AN 18 PACK OF EGGS NEXT TIME.

NOW, I WANTED TO LOOP MY FAMILY IN BEFORE I TOSS MY HAT INTO THE RING BECAUSE POLITICS IS SERIOUS.

I'D BE COMPETING WITH PEGGY FLANAGAN MAYBE EVEN ANGIE CRAIG OR ILHAN OMAR.

BUT WHEN I SHARED THE NEWS WITH MY EX-HUSBAND, HE WAS A TOTAL DEBBIE DOWNER.

HE TOLD ME, WOULD YOU BELIEVE THIS, ON VALENTINE'S DAY, THAT I LIKE TO FIGHT, CUSS, AND DRINK TOO MUCH TO GET LECTED TO SENATE.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT?

HE'S PROBABLY RIGHT.

I SHOULD SET MY SIGHTS IGHER, LIKE THE PRESIDENCY!

♪ >> Eric: IN JANUARY PRESIDENT TRUMP ISSUED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER EFFECTIVELY SUSPENDING THE U.S.

REFUGEE ADMISSIONS PROGRAM.

REFUGEES WHO HAD BEEN APPROVED FOR ENTRY ARE NOW IN LIMBO.

MINNESOTA HAS A LONG HISTORY OF REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT, ONE ORGANIZATION DOING THAT WORK AROUND THE STATE IS THE INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE OF MINNESOTA.

AND WE'RE JOINED BY MICAELA SCHUNEMAN.

HOW DID I DO?

>> VERY WELL, THANKS.

>> Eric: WORKS AS SENIOR DIRECTOR OF IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE SERVICES THERE.

THANKS FOR COMING.

WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A REFUGEE AND JUST A PERSON THAT IS CROSSING THE BORDER IN EAGLE PASS, TEXAS, TO OPEN A RESTAURANT OR WHATEVER.

>> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

REFUGEES ARRIVE WHEN THEY ARE RESETTLED BY THE UNITED STATES REFUGEE ADMISSIONS PROGRAM.

THEY ARRIVE WITH THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF REFUGEES.

SO THEY ARE ENTERING THE UNITED STATES WITH A VALID IMMIGRATION STATUS AND THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR EMPLOYMENT UPON ARRIVAL.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR AN EMPLOYMENT CARD.

THEY ARE ELIGIBLE TO START WORKING IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> Cathy: AND THESE FOLKS ARE FLEEING UNREST, FAMINE, REALLY HORRIBLE THINGS, RIGHT?

>> YES, IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE STATUS OF REFUGEE YOU HAVE TO BE IN FEAR OF PERSECUTION BASED ON RACE, RELIGION, NATIONALITY, POLITICAL # OPINION, OR MEMBERSHIP IN A PARTICULAR SOCIAL GROUP.

SO IT'S A VERY NARROW LEGAL CATEGORY.

>> Eric: SO WHAT IS THE TOUGHEST THING FOR YOU TO KIND OF NAVIGATE RIGHT NOW WITH THE UNCERTAINTY THAT'S GOING ON?

>> YEAH, AND UNCERTAINTY IS THE WORD I WOULD SAY.

THE PROGRAM'S BEEN SUSPENDED.

THE EXECUTIVE ORDER WAS ISSUED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP ON JANUARY 20TH, ON JANUARY 21ST ALL FLIGHTS WERE STOPPED, SO EVERY FLIGHT WE HAD SCHEDULED TO ARRIVE WAS CANCELED STARTING ON OUR FIRST FLIGHT WAS JANUARYT MAYBE THAT GROUP WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ENTER BUT THEY WEREN'T, THEY WERE CANCELED.

AND SO WE ARE WAITING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

THE EXECUTIVE ORDER SUSPENDED REFUGEE ARRIVALS FOR 90 DAYS.

SO IN APRIL WE WILL HOPEFULLY HAVE MORE INFORMATION BUT THE ORDER DID SAY THE PROGRAM WOULD BE REEVALUATED EVERY 90 DAYS SO WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF ADMISSIONS WILL CONTINUE AFTER APRIL OR IF THERE WILL BE ANOTHER HOLD.

>> Cathy: SO WHERE ARE THESE FOLKS RIGHT NOW?

WHO WERE SUPPOSED TO ARRIVE HERE?

>> YEAH, THAT'S ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS ABOUT THIS BECAUSE WHEN REFUGEES ARE SCHEDULED TO TRAVEL THEY OFTEN GIVE UP THEIR PLACE IN REFUGEE CAMPS, THEY GIVE AWAY ALL OF THEIR POSSESSIONS AND MOVE IT FROM A CAMP TO A CITY WHERE THEY'LL BE TRAVELING AND SO PEOPLE HAVE TO GO BACK BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THEIR POSSESSIONS, THEY DON'T HAVE A SPACE ANYMORE.

THEY'RE BACK IN REFUGEE CAMPS OR IF THEY WERE LIVING IN A CITY THEY GO BACK TO THAT CITY AND WAIT FOR AN UNCERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, WE DON'T STOW WHEN PEOPLE WILL BE RESCHEDULED TO COME.

>> Eric: WHAT KIND OF NUMBERS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THAT MIGHT BE AFFECTED RIGHT NOW?

>> SO OUR OFFICE WAS EXPECTING TO RESETTLE ABOUT 800 PEOPLE THIS YEAR.

, WHAT COUNTRIES MAINLY?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S A REALLY DIVERSE GROUP.

WE HAD EXPECTED ARRIVALS THIS YEAR FROM SOMALIA, FROM BURMA, FROM AFGHANISTAN, VENEZUELA, AND OTHER LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES.

THAT'S A NEWER POPULATION COMING THROUGH THE RESETTLEMENT PROGRAM.

SO ALL OF THOSE CASES ARE ON HOLD.

AND SO PEOPLE ARE WAITING TO BE RESCHEDULED BUT WE DON'T KNOW IF OR WHEN THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Cathy: 800 DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A VERY BIG NUMBER TO ME.

IS THAT NUMBER -- PUT THAT INTO CONTEXT.

>> YES, THAT IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY HIGH NUMBER FOR US.

YES, LAST YEAR WE RESETTLED OVER 600 PEOPLE SO GOING FROM 600 TO 800 WAS A BIG JUMP FOR US.

MINNESOTA WAS EXPECTING ABOUT 3,000 ARRIVALS TOTAL THIS YEAR.

AND SO OUR OFFICE HAD RESETTLED 244 PEOPLE BEFORE THE PROGRAM WAS SUSPENDED.

SO WE'RE THINKING AT LEAST 500 PEOPLE THAT WE HAD EXPECTED TO COME ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO COME.

>> Cathy: WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE UNCERTAINTY HERE BUT I'M WONDERING WITH THE FROZEN FUNDING AND EVERYTHING PEOPLE ALWAYS WANT TO KNOW CAN THEY HELP, IS THERE SOMETHING THE PUBLIC CAN DO AT THIS POINT OR NOT?

IS IS >> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS BOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED WAS NOT ONLY WAS THE RESETTLEMENT STOPPED FOR NEW ARRIVALS BUT THE FUNDING WE WERE TOLD WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO USE ANY FEDERAL FUNDS TO SERVE REFUGEES WHO WERE ALREADY HERE.

AND SO THAT WAS VERY CHALLENGING BECAUSE WE HAD 183 PEOPLE WHO HAD JUST RECENTLY ARRIVED.

THEY ARE WITHIN 90 DAYS OF ARRIVAL.

AND SO WE'VE BEEN SUPPORTING THEM BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO -- WE FELT LIKE WE HAD MADE A COMMITMENT TO WORK WITH THEM, OF COURSE, THROUGH THOSE 90 DAYS SO WE ARE FUND-RAISING TO TRY TO RAISE AS MANY FUNDS AS POSSIBLE TO REPLACE THOSE FEDERAL DOLLARS SO THAT WE CAN STILL PAY RENT, BUY GROCERIES, SUPPORT THOSE CLIENTS AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

>> Eric: KEEP US POSTED, WILL YOU?

APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Cathy: GOOD LUCK.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

♪ >> I THINK IT'S ABOUT WHO IS AUTHENTIC, WHO'S REAL, WHO CAN MEET PEOPLE IN THE STREET WHERE THEY LIVE, WHO CAN TALK TO THEM THE WAY THEY UNDERSTAND IT ABOUT THE VISION FOR THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE DIFFERENCE, WHO CAN ARTICULATE A CLEAR VISION OF WHAT WILL UT MINNESOTA ABACK ON A ROAD TO PROSPERITY.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT AND I APPRECIATE TOM TEEING THAT UP FOR ME.

THE REALITY IS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I COME FROM AN AREA OF THE STATE WHERE MY DISTRICT'S BEEN CARED BY KLOBUCHAR, PETERSON, MENGE, CLINTON, YOU HAVE TO AEL PEEL TO CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS AND INDEPENDENTS TO BE ABLE TO WIN IN MINNESOTA AND I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT AND ARTICULATE THAT MESSAGE FOR PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN, TO HAVE THAT SUCCESS, I'VE BEEN ELECTED AND REELECTED THE LEADER OF MY CAUCUS BY MY PEERS.

SO I THINK PEOPLE REALLY RIGHT NOW ARE LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS AND TOM AND I ARE PUTTING OUT GOOD SOLUTIONS FOR THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA.

THE REALITY IS IT'S NOT ABOUT ONE THING FOR THE ENDORSEMENT AND ONE THING FOR THE GENERAL.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF THAT.

THEY WANT SOMEONE WHO'S GOING TO BE CONSISTENT.

♪ >> Cathy: WE HAVE SOME GOOD NEWS, ACTUALLY.

BIRDCHICK IS BACK!

SHARON STITELER WITH HER STRANGE OWL IS BACK, SHE'S OUR FAVORITE BIRD EXPERT.

THIS WEEK, YES, WE'RE GOING TO TALK OWLS, AS AN IRRUPTION IN NORTHERN MINNESOTA HAS THOSE LITTLE BUGGERS COMING OUT IF DROVES.

ACTUALLY I THINK IT'S COOL THAT THEY'RE HERE.

>> IT'S SUPER EXCITING.

20 YEARS AGO THIS MONTH I GOT MY BIG BREAK BECAUSE WE HAD A CRAZY OWL IRRUPTION IF AND I TOOK NBC NIGHTLY NEWS OUT.

SO IT'S FOR ME T'S LIKE, WOW, THIS IS AMAZING, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN >> Cathy: WHAT A WEIRD TERM, THOUGH, IRRUPTION, YOU WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE LIKE ERUPTION, LIKE MOUNT VESUVIUS.

>> AH, SCIENTISTS.

AND I THINK AT ONE POINT 20 YEARS AGO I CALLED IT AN INVASION AND LET ME TELL YOU, SOME OWL ORNITHOLOGISTS TOOK ME TO TASK ONLINE.

THE SPECIES ISN'T REGULARLY I'M GOINGRY LIKE SOME LIKE SWALLOWS BUT THEY SORT OF IRRUPT INTO THE STATE.

>> Eric: LET'S GO TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS.

SNOWY OWL IS UP FIRST.

>> Cathy: ARE THEY ACTUALLY HERE?

>> MSP, AT THE AIRPORT, CARGILL ROAD, THE AIRPLANE OBSERVATION AREA, FULL DISCLOSURE THIS IS A PICTURE OF A SNOWY OWL THAT I TOOK IN ALASKA IN A CEMETERY.

>> Cathy: REALLY PRETTY THOUGH.

>> THEY ARE PRETTY.

THIS IS A FEMALE SNOWY OWL, I TOOK THIS PICTURE AT THE AIRPORT AND YOU'RE GOING TO WATCH FOR THEM ON TOP OF THE BUILDINGS, WATCH FOR THEM ON THE GROUND.

IF THEY STAY AWAY FROM THE RUNWAYS THE AIRPORT LEAVES THEM ALONE.

IF THEY GET INTO TROUBLE THEN SOMETIMES THEY'LL WORK WITH LIKE THE RAPTOR CENTER TO TRAP AND RELOCATE THEM SAFELY.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

>> BUT, YEAH, GO TO THE AIRPLANE OBSERVATION AREA, LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WITH BINOCULARS AND WE ARE HAPPY TO TELL YOU WHERE THE SNOWY OWL IS BUT THERE'S AT LEAST FOUR HANGING OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.

>> Cathy: OH, THAT'S COOL.

AND WE SHOULD SAY THEY'RE COMING DOWN IN DROVES BECAUSE OF THEY'RE HUNGRY.

>> WELL, HE HAD THEY HAD A REALLY GOOD NESTING YEAR AND SO ALL THOSE YOUNG HAVE TO GO OUT AND FIND THEIR OWN TERRITORY AND FIND THEIR OWN FOOD AND SOME OF THEM WERE LIKE, HEY, I'M GOING TO GO DOWN INTO MINNESOTA AND WE ALWAYS HAVE AT LEAST ONE SNOWY THAT SHOWS UP AT THE AIRPORT BUT THIS YEAR ABOUT FORGAVE.

AND OTHER PARTS IN THE STATE, LIKE WE'VE SEEN A COUPLE AT JACKSON BOG.

>> Eric: HAVE YOU HOWN US GREAT GRAY YET?

>> THAT'S REALLY BIG UP ALONG THE NORTH SHORE, ZACHISM BOG.

GREAT GRAYS ARE OUR LARGEST OWL BASED ON LENGTH.

AND SO THEY'RE ALSO ACTIVE DURING THE DAY SO YOU CAN GO TO SAXON BOG, YOU CAN GO ALONG THE NORTH SHORE ALONG DULUTH, THEY'RE HANGING OUT THERE.

I WAS ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR A DIFFERENT SPECIES OF OWL ND RAN ACROSS QUITE A FEW GREAT GRAYS IN TWO HARBORS.

>> I ALMOST HIT ONE ON TWO HARBORS ON 61.

I FELT SO BAD, IT WAS LIKE A B52 COMING OVER THE HIGHWAY.

LIKE COME ON, HONEY, YOU GOT TO GET SOME AIR HERE.

>> YEAH, THEY'RE NOT USED TO CARS.

>> Cathy: OH.

>> MOST OF THESE BIRDS ARE NESTING IN AREAS WHERE THERE AREN'T ROADWAYS.

SO, AND THEY GET SO FOCUSED ON THE THFOOD, THEY'RE LIKE, WHAT, CAR, I'M SUPPOSED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THAT?

IT'S A GREAT TIME TO EE THEM, THOUGH.

>> Cathy: IS THAT WHY THEY'VE BEEN GETTING HIT.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW HIT, I REMEMBER DURING THE IRRUPTION OF ON, 04 AND 05, THERE WERE OVER 500 HIT.

AND THEY WERE BIG, THEY WERE FAT AND SASSY AND EATING A LOT OF VOLES.

>> BOREAL.

THAT IS THE MOST EXCITING OWL RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS ONE OF THE HARDEST OWLS TO SEE, WE DON'T ALWAYS FIND THEM IN MINNESOTA BUT I'VE HEARD SOME PEOPLE TRACKING UP THERE THAT THERE RE AT LEAST 30 HANGING OUT UP THERE.

THERE WAS A POINT IN TWO HARBORS WHERE THERE WAS SIX INDIVIDUAL BOREAL OWLS.

THEY'RE TINY, PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO TRY AND SEE THIS OWL.

IT'S A TINY OWL, HARD TO SEE, YOU'D HAVE TO GO TO ALASKA TYPICALLY SEE THIS OWL.

>> Eric: NORTHERN HAWK OWL.

>> THERE'S A FEW OF THOSE HANGING AROUND, THEY LIKE TO TEE UP ON TOP OF TREES, THERE'S ONE HANGING OUT IN ATE KIN COUNTY AS WELL AS THE NORTH SHORE.

THESE ARE ALL SPECIALTY WINTER OWLS.

>> Eric: HAVE YOU GOT AN IMPERSONATION OF THESE OWLS?

YOU SOMETIMES GIVE A LITTLE BIRD CALL.

>> MAYBE AFTER I'VE HAD SOME JAMESON.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Eric: WE'RE NOT AT THAT STAGE YET.

>> I DON'T NORMALLY LIKE TO DO BIRD CALLS.

>> Cathy: IT'S OKAY, IT'S ALL RIGHT.

BUT I'M WONDERING HERE SOMEONE TOLD ME TO LEAVE THE OWLS ALONE, THEY FREAK OUT WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SEE THEM.

>> YOU KNOW, PEOPLE PROJECT A LOT OF STUFF ON OWLS, I'M NOT GOING TO LIE LIKE SOME PEOPLE GET OBSESSED AND THEY WILL GET TOO CLOSE TO THEM AND THAT IS A PROBLEM.

BUT WE PUT A LOT OF OUR OWN ANXIETIES ON BIRDS THAT THEY'RE JUST NOT REALLY REGISTERING.

>> Eric: WEE BIT OF THE JAMESON RIGHT AFTER THE SHOW.

>> YEAH, HAPPY VALENTINE'S.

>> Cathy: YEAH.

SEE YA LATER.

[ LAUGHTER ] ♪ ♪ >> Eric: AT THE STATE CAPITOL, THE HOUSE AND SENATE HAD THEIR FIRST FULL WEEK OF TWO CHAMBERS IN ACTION.

REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER IS BACK TO SHOW US HOW THE KEY ISSUE OF STOPPING FRAUD HAS BIPARTISAN MOMENTUM IN THE SENATE, AND NOT SO MUCH IN THE HOUSE.

>> THE MOTION PREVAILS.

>> THE SENATE SAW AGREEMENT AND PRODUCTIVE BIPARTISAN WORK APPROVING A PLAN TO TACKLE WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT FUNDS BY CREATING A NEW STATE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL.

>> THE IRST BIPARTISAN BILL PRESENTATION FOR THE -- >> FOR ME, YEAH.

WE DECIDED THIS PRETTY EARLY ON AND I REALLY HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE JOINED US NOT JUST AS AN AUTHOR BUT HAVE BEEN ACTIVE IN THE CRAFTING OF THE LANGUAGE.

>> YEAH, I BELIEVE IT'S MY FIRST BIPARTISAN BILL PRESENTATION.

I HAVE HAD A CO-PRESENTATION BUT I THINK IT WAS WITH ANOTHER REPUBLICAN.

>> AT THE TABLE TODAY YOU'LL SEE SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T OFTEN SEE.

THIS BILL S BEING COPRESENTED BY A DEMOCRAT AND A REPUBLICAN.

>> I'D LIKE TO THANK SENATOR GUSTAFSON FOR HER EFFORTS HERE TO BRING PARTIES TO, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PARTIES TOGETHER, MAKE THIS A TRULY BIPARTISAN EFFORT.

>> THIS IS DEFINITELY KIND F BEEN A GUT PUNCH TO MOST LEGISLATORS AGAIN WHEN IT LEAVES OUR HANDS, MONEY-WISE OR POLICY-WISE AND IT DOESN'T GO THE WAY WE INTEND IT TO GO AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU SEE SUCH A GOOD BIPARTISAN EFFORT THIS ONE.

>> I AM HOPEFUL THAT THIS LEGISLATURE WILL GO THROUGH A PROCESS THAT IS BIPARTISAN, BICAMERAL AND SENDS A BILL THAT IS VERY HEAVILY SUPPORTED TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE BECAUSE WE NEED TO DEMONSTRATE TO MINNESOTA THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND THAT WE MEAN BUSINESS.

>> HOW ODD OF A COMMITTEE HEARING THIS HAS BEEN WHEN I'M AGREEING WITH SENATOR KORAN AND SENATOR BAHR AND SENATOR DRAZKOWSKI.

>> THESE ARE BILLS THAT AREN'T COMPLEX, THEY'RE NOT COMPLICATED, THEY'RE SIMPLE FIXES THAT WE'VE BEEN, THE ADMINISTRATION'S BEEN IGNORING FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS.

>> WITH MORE THAN HALF A BILLION DOLLARS OF FRAUD DOCUMENTED WITH STATE DOLLARS, IT'S A TOP POLITICAL ISSUE IN TWO LOSELY DIVIDED CHAMBERS SO THIS EARLY BIPARTISAN PARTNERSHIP IS NOTABLE FROM TWO SENATORS IN SWING DISTRICTS.

>> WHAT WAS THE GENESIS OF THE TWO OF YOU GETTING TOGETHER?

>> I THINK I TWISTED HIS HARM.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR A WHILE.

WE STARTED OUT WITH POWER SHARING AND IT WAS GOING REALLY WELL SO WE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THAT MOMENT AND DECIDED THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING WE BOTH CARED ABOUT.

I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME REPUBLICAN COAUTHORS BUT I REALLY KNEW THAT IN ORDER TO GET THIS ACROSS IT COULDN'T JUST BE MY BILL THAT I HAD THEM SIGN THEIR NAME TO, IT HAD TO BE A JOINT BILL IN THE TRUEST SENSE.

>> THE TIE IS OVER, BUT COULD THIS HELP YOU GET THROUGH THE HOUSE AND GET TO THE GOVERNOR?

>> THE POLITICAL DYNAMICS THAT WE'RE FACING RIGHT NOW THIS IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE BIPARTISAN.

AND SO IT MAKES SENSE TO ME TO MAKE IT BIPARTISAN FROM THE BEGINNING.

>> THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GETTING RID OF INSPECTORS GENERAL, AND WE'RE TRYING TO ADD THEM.

>> I'M FOCUSED ON THE STATE GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW.

AND HONESTLY I'M TOO BUSY TO FOLLOW THE DAY TO DAY GOING ON WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

I KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE SCOPE OF THE PROBLEM HERE AT THE STATE GOVERNMENT AND THAT'S MY FOCUS.

AND I THINK BRINGING MY LEGAL EXPERTISE TOO TO MAKE SURE THIS BILL IS WORKABLE FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT IS GOING TO REALLY SET IT UP FOR SUCCESS.

>> I THINK IT'S GOOD TO FOCUS ON WHAT WE CAN DO HERE IN MINNESOTA AND MAYBE BE A LEADER.

WE ARE ASKING FOR MORE TRANSPARENCY, MORE ACCOUNTABILITY, MORE EFFICIENCY, WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR LESS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS DOING BUT THAT'S REALLY EVERY DAY WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

>> STATE HOUSE REPUBLICAN LEADERS SENT A LETTER TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ASKING HE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO INVESTIGATE NEW FRAUD CLAIMS HERE IN MINNESOTA.

>> THERE BEING SEVEN YESES AND SIX NAYS, THE MOTION PREVAILS.

>> THE HOUSE SAW SLIM PARTY-LINE VOTES ON OTHER FRAUD PROPOSALS IN COMMITTEE, AND WHILE REPUBLICANS ON THE FLOOR HAVE A ONE-VOTE ADVANTAGE, THEY NEED TO GAIN D.F.L.

VOTES TO GET ANY BILLS PASSED.

>> MAKE WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE LESS POSSIBLE AND LESS RAMPANT IN OUR STATE.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH AND LOOK FOR WITCHES TO BURN AT THE STAKE, THAT'S NOT THE INTENT.

>> I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THIS AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT ADDING ANOTHER LEVEL OF BUREAUCRACY.

>> I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S THE BEST USE OF OUR RESOURCES THIS WAY.

>> OVER HERE IN THE HOUSE THERE WAS SOME PARTY-LINE VOTES ON SOME OF THE FRAUD BILLS, YOU'RE NOT IN THE SAME PLACE, WHY IS THAT?

>> YEAH, IT'S DISAPPOINTING AND HONESTLY IT'S REALLY SURPRISING TO ME.

I REALLY THINK FRAUD IS A BIPARTISAN ISSUE AND WE HAVE GREAT WORKING RELATIONSHIPS WITH OUR DEMOCRAT COLLEAGUES ON THE COMMITTEE.

THE GOVERNOR CAME OUT WITH HIS PROPOSAL AND I CARRY A WHISTLEBLOWER BILL THAT'S EXPANDING WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTIONS FOR STATE WORKERS.

>> DO YOU HAVE DEMOCRATIC COAUTHORS?

>> AND I DON'T AND IN THE SENATE THE BILL PASSED UNANIMOUSLY BIPARTISANLY OUT OF COMMITTEE AND IN THE HOUSE THIS WEEK IT PASSED ON A PARTY-LINE VOTE.

>> THE HOUSE HEARD SEVERAL FRAUD RELATED BILLS AND THEY ALL PASSED ON PARTY LINE.

THAT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE THAT.

>> NO, I THINK WHAT YOU SAW TODAY HERE IS WE HAVE TRUE BIPARTISAN UPPORT FOR THIS IDEA.

ARE WE GOING TO AGREE ON EVERY DETAIL?

MAYBE, MAYBE NOT BUT WE HAVE OPEN AND CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATIONS.

AND SO I'M REALLY PROUD OF WHERE THE SENATE IS AT.

OUR BILL HAS BEEN VETTED.

WE HAVE A REALLY SOLID START AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE BIPARTISAN WORK.

>> IS THE SENATE AHEAD OF THE HOUSE?

>> WE STARTED EARLIER SO IN THAT SENSE WE ARE, BUT, NO, I THINK HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE AND BRINGS AS MANY PEOPLE INTO THE PROCESS AS POSSIBLE, HEARING THEIR CONCERNS, BEING REALLY TRANSPARENT, HEY, THIS IS WHAT I'M DOING, THIS IS WHAT THE BILL LOOKS LIKE, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS AND ACTUALLY IF YOU INCORPORATE SOME OF THAT FEEDBACK INTO IT THEN YOU HAVE A HEARING LIKE WE HAD TODAY WHICH IS EVERYBODY HAS SOME, YOU KNOW, AN ISSUE HERE OR THERE BUT EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE GENERALLY ON BOARD WITH THE OVERALL CONCEPT.

>> IF EVERYONE'S INVESTED IN IT I THINK IT'S A GROUP VICTORY, AT LEAST IT'S A SENATE VICTORY.

♪ >> Cathy: WE ARE NEVER BORED HERE ON "ALMANAC" AND I'M GUESSING OUR PANEL OF POLITICAL SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN KEEPING BUSY TOO.

WE'RE GOING TO IVE RIGHT IN WITH TONIGHT'S PROFESSORS.

DAVID SCHULTZ TEACHES POLITICAL SCIENCE AT HMM LIN UNIVERSITY AND ALSO AN ADJUNCT LAW PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS.

ACROSS THE RIVER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA'S POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT IS WHERE YOU WILL FIND PROFESSOR MICHAEL MINTA.

AND A BIT FURTHER ACROSS ANOTHER RIVER COMPLETELY, NEIL KRAUS TEACHES POLITICAL SCIENCE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN RIVER FALLS.

GO, FALCONS.

ALL RIGHT, GENTLEMEN, GOOD TO SEE Y'ALL.

PROFESSOR MINTA, LET US TALK A BIT HERE ABOUT TINA SMITH NOT SEEKING REELECTION AS WAS BROUGHT UP BY OUR REPORTER FRIEND JOHN MCCORMICK.

A LITTLE UNUSUAL.

SHE'S STEPPING ASIDE AT KIND OF A YOUNG AGE.

[ LAUGHTER ] VERSUS OTHER SENATORS THAT ARE HANGIN' OUT AND BEEN THERE MUCH LONGER.

>> CONSIDERING AVERAGE AGE IS LIKE 63 SO SHE'S A LITTLE YOUNGISH IN TERMS OF STEPPING AWAY BUT SHE SAYS SHE WANTS TO SPEND TIME WITH HER FAMILY.

I DON'T KNOW, IT'S OING TO BE A TOUGH RUN FOR THE DEMOCRATS IN 2026.

IT'S LIKE 53-46, CAN THEY WIN ALL OF THESE COMPETITIVE SEATS.

NOW HER SEATS, NOW DEMOCRATS ARE ACTUALLY CONCERNED BECAUSE MINNESOTA MAY BE FAIRLY COMPETITIVE THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS.

SO AND YOU SEE HERE'S LIKE THIS FIGHT ON WHO'S GOING TO BE NEXT.

I MEAN, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, EXCUSE ME, PEGGY FLANAGAN'S ALREADY SAID, PUT THE GAUNTLET DOWN, TIM WALZ OBVIOUSLY WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING.

ILHAN OMAR HAS SAID THAT SHE'S INTERESTED.

>> Cathy: A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED.

>> OH, YEAH.

>> THAT'S PROBABLY THE BIGGEST PROBLEM AT THIS POINT IS THE FACT THAT THERE MAY BE SO MANY PEOPLE INTERESTED THAT THE INFIGHTING WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS GOING TO GOBBLE EACH OTHER UP OF WHICH ALSO WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT EVEN THOUGH THERE'S BEEN NO REPUBLICAN STATEWIDE ELECTED SINCE TIM PAWLENTY'S SECOND TIME AS GOVERNOR WHAT WE'RE STARTING TO FIND OUT IS A LARGE CHUNK OF MINNESOTA IS NOWHERE NEAR AS LIBERAL AS THE TWIN CITIES.

DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS HERE, THE CAUCUSES, CONVENTIONS FOR DEMOCRATS, FAR MORE LIBERAL THAN THE REST OF THE STATE.

THEY COULD WIND UP NOMINATING SOMEBODY WHO COULD VERY WELL BE OUT OF STATE WITH THE REST OF THE STATE.

>> Eric: WISCONSIN IS A TRUE SWING STATE UNLIKE MINNESOTA, MAYBE THEY SAY WELL, IT'S PURPLE MAYBE.

AND WITH THE CHARACTER OF WISCONSIN AND ITS ECONOMY, IS TRUMP GOING TO, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO -- WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY -- WILL HE BE ABLE TO REMAIN POPULAR IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT.

>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THERE'S SO MUCH GOING ON IN THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS.

I MEAN, HE'S TRYING TO SORT OF GET RID OF AGENCIES AND MASS LAYOFFS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND I TEND TO WONDER IF 2026 MIGHT BE AN EASY YEAR FOR THE DEMS IN MINNESOTA.

BECAUSE I JUST, SEEMS LIKE SO MUCH OVERREACH HERE.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, HE'S REALLY, TRUMP IS REALLY PUSHING THE LIMITS AND I'M NOT SO SURE THAT ONCE PEOPLE START TO SEE, WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, I READ TODAY A THOUSAND I THINK NATIONAL PARK SERVICE EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO BE LAID OFF.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START SEEING THESE KINDS OF THINGS.

>> I THINK IT ALL EPENDS ON HOW MUCH IT HITS THE FANS IN TERMS OF WHAT I'M SAYING WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, A LOT OF THESE ARE RURAL AREAS, TRUMP AREAS ACTUALLY START FEELING THE PAIN.

JOBS ARE BEING LOST, SERVICES ARE BEING LOST, HAT ONE AND ASSUMING THAT THERE'S A REACTION TO THE ECONOMICS AND THAT THE LOYALTY TO TRUMP ISN'T JUST BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, BASED ON PERSONALITY, THEN IT COULD BE LIKE WHAT NEIL IS SAYING HERE 2026 COULD ACTUALLY BE LOOKING LIKE RIGHT NOW A COUNTERREACTION.

>> Cathy: SAY, WHERE'S CONGRESS IN ALL OF THIS?

I MEAN DON'T REALLY HEAR -- IT'S QUIET OVER THERE WITH THAT BRANCH.

>> OH, YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S PARTY POLITICS, RIGHT?

WHERE IF A DEMOCRAT OBVIOUSLY WAS DOING ALL OF THIS THEY WOULD BE RAISING HELL BUT SINCE THE REPUBLICANS CONTROL THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, I MEAN, I THINK YOU SAW WITH SOME OF THE NOMINATIONS, RIGHT, MITCH MCCONNELL IS LIKE BEING THE DISSENTING VOICE WHICH IS KIND OF UNUSUAL IN 2025, BUT, YEAH, I THINK MANY PEOPLE JUST DON'T WANT TO STEP IN, THEY DON'T WANT TO OFFEND REPUBLICAN PARTY AND PARTICULARLY PRESIDENT TRUMP AND GET ON THE BAD SIDE BECAUSE THEY WANT LEGISLATION THAT'S GOING TO COME THROUGH, THEY WANT FUNDING FOR THEIR DISTRICTS AND THEY DON'T WANT THE PRESIDENT GETTING IN THE WAY OF THAT.

>> Eric: THE COURTS DON'T HAVE A STANDING ARMY OR THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE THROWING PEOPLE IN JAIL.

>> RIGHT.

, WHAT'S GOING TO KEEP THE PRESIDENT AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FROM OBEYING?

>> WELL, THIS IS THE MILLION-DOLLAR QUESTION AT SOME POINT IS THAT WE'VE GOT A NEARLY 250-YEAR TRADITION OF THINGS CALLED, WHAT, RESPECT FOR RULE OF LAW, WELL ENSCONCED IN THE LAW IS THE IDEA THAT THE COURTS GET TO MAKE THE CALL ON CONSTITUTIONALITY.

AND OLITICAL SCIENTISTS INCREASINGLY THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE UNWRITTEN NORMS THAT YOU SORT OF ACCEPT THE FACT AND SAY, YES, THE COURTS SPEAK, YOU OBEY.

WHAT TRUMP HAS BEEN CHALLENGING ALL OF THOSE AND THAT'S REALLY THE ISSUE AT THIS POINT.

IF HE NOW STARTS TO SAY I'M NOT GOING TO OBEY COURTS AS YOU POINTED OUT, CONGRESS IS LAYING DOWN AT THIS POINT, PARTY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN CHECKS AND BALANCES.

I HATE TO USE THE PHRASE CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS BUT AT THAT POINT IT'S CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS TIME.

>> I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING WE'VE ALWAYS ASSUMED I THINK IN THE UNITED STATES THAT DEMOCRACY AND SOME VERSION OF FREE MARKETS GO TOGETHER, SOME VERSION OF CAPITALISM.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THAT'S NOT THE CASE AND WE'VE KNOWN THAT JUST LOOKING THROUGHOUT MUCH OF THE WORLD.

>> YES.

>> SO MARKETS ARE DOING GREAT.

THE ECONOMY SEEMS TO BE DOING GREAT.

IF THE RULE OF LAW IS MAINTAINED IT'S SORT OF AN OPEN QUESTION.

>> IT IS AT THIS OINT.

>> ALSO SUGGESTING AT THIS POINT THAT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HAS GOTTEN KIND OF, WHAT, TIRED OF DEMOCRACY ON ONE LEVEL.

ON ONE LEVEL.

>> WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT, BUT, YEAH.

>> WELL, I WAS GOING TO SAY FOR A LOT OF THEM IS IT'S MORE IMPORTANT FOR THEM FOR ECONOMY TO PERFORM THAN DEMOCRACY TO PERFORM.

>> ONE THING I WANT TO SAY I THINK THAT TRUMP AND HIS TEAM ARE VERY STRATEGIC, EVERYONE'S SAYING THEY GOT TO FOLLOW THE LAW, THEY GOT TO FOLLOW THE LAW, THEY'RE PUSHING THE EDGE, GETTING THESE DISTRICT COURTS TO RULE AGAINST THEM BUT THEY'RE HOPING EVENTUALLY IT WILL GO TO THE SUPREME COURT AND IN THE SUPREME COURT WILL BE STACKED IN THEIR FAVOR AND THAT THEY WILL BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE LAW SO THEY'RE REALLY GOING AFTER THE CIVIL SERVICE, THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO GET THESE INDEPENDENT AGENCIES, THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO SQUASH THAT.

AND I THINK IF THEY GET THAT THEN THE LIBERALS OR DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE A VERY HARD TIME TALKING ABOUT RULE OF LAW BECAUSE THEY THINK THE LAW WILL BE ON HEIR SIDE.

>> I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

I THINK WE HAVE TO WONDER AT THIS POINT IS THAT WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE IF NOW THEY'RE DEFYING THE COURTS AND WE DON'T KNOW, IT'S A HYPOTHESIS HERE, IF YOU'RE NOW DEFYING THE COURTS DOES THE SUPREME COURT ACTUALLY COME IN AND DO ITS INSTITUTIONAL ROLE AND SAY YOU CAN'T TREAD ON OUR BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.

>> Cathy: WHAT HAPPENS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO VIEWERS, IF IT GOES -- IF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PRESSES FORWARD AND DOESN'T FOLLOW THESE ORDERS, EVEN IF IT GOES TO THE SUPREME COURT AND THEY JUST SHRUG, I MEAN, WHAT APPENS EXACTLY?

>> WE ARE IN OMEWHAT LIMBOLAND AT THIS POINT.

I HATE TO SAY THAT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A SITUATION LIKE THIS WHERE I WAS TELLING MY STUDENTS THE OTHER DAY BACK IN 1974 NIXON SAID, WELL, MAYBE I WON'T COMPLY WITH THE SUPREME COURT AND HE DID AT THE END OF THE DAY.

NOW, PARTLY IT'S ALSO BECAUSE YOU HAD BERRY GOLDWATER SAY TO HIM THAT, LISTEN, YOU'RE ALREADY OUT, IF YOU DEFY, YOU'RE DEFINITELY OUT IN TERMS OF YOU WON'T HAVE THE VOTES IN THE SENATE.

THERE WERE STILL SOME CHECKS THERE.

WE'VE LOST MOST OF THOSE CHECKS.

AGAIN, I LOOK AT THIS AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE LEARNED FROM CROSS THE WORLD IS THAT OVERLY STRONG EXECUTIVES AND DEMOCRACY ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ONE ANOTHER AND YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME KIND OF CHECKS OF THAT EXECUTIVE POWER.

IF THOSE ARE GONE THEN THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT ROSION OF DEMOCRACY.

>> I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF WE EASILY COME BACK FROM IT IF THAT APPENS.

>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE REALLY LOOKS LIKE.

AND IF ELECTED OFFICIALS IN BOTH PARTIES IN WASHINGTON, IF OTHER LEADERS IN OUR SOCIETY DON'T STEP FORWARD AT THAT POINT I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> Eric: DO DEMOCRATS HAVE TO DO BETTER MESSAGING OR DO THEY NEED A BETTER MESSAGE?

IN OTHER WORDS PEOPLE HEARD THE MESSAGE AND DIDN'T LIKE IT.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

I MEAN, I THINK THE ONE THING THAT DEMOCRATS ARE HAVING AN ISSUE WITH OBVIOUSLY IS THE MONEY.

I MEAN, IT'S RAISING MONEY AND TARGETING -- WHEN YOU HAVE ELON MUSK, YOU GOT TIM MELON AND EVEN THOUGH YOU SAY DEMOCRATS RAISE A LOT OF ONEY BUT IT'S PUSHING IT IN THESE DIFFERENT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS AND U.S. SENATE RACES AND ALSO APPARENTLY TO FIGHT THESE COURT BATTLES.

I MEAN, REPUBLICANS SEEM TO HAVE ENDLESS MONEY AND SO I THINK THEY HAVE TO RAISE MORE MONEY AND I DO THINK IT'S PART OF THE MESSAGING TOO.

>> I ALSO THINK I WAS GOING TO SAY IT'S ALSO ABOUT CHANGING POLICY.

>> Eric: TO BE CONTINUED.

>> YES.

>> Eric: WE ARE OUT OF TIME TONIGHT BUT THERE'S ALWAYS ROOM FOR MUSIC.

ENJOY A VALENTINE TUNE FROM T MYCHAL RAMBO, AND THOMASINA PETRAS.

THEY DROPPED BY THIS WEEK IN 2010.

BE CAREFUL.

♪ >> LIKE JACK HORNER IN THE CORNER DON'T GO NOWHERE ♪ ♪ WHAT DO I CARE?

YOUR KISSES ARE WORTH WAITING FOR YOU BETTER WATCH OUT BELIEVE ME I KNOW FOR CERTAIN THE ONE I LOVE.

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