GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump's executive order barring transgender people from serving openly in the military is now being weighed in federal court.

The judge in the case appeared to express doubt that the ban could be justified as necessary to improve military readiness.

Here's Lisa Desjardins.

LISA DESJARDINS: Among the executive orders that Trump signed last month was one stating that transgender Americans cannot satisfy the rigorous standards necessary for military service and that the Pentagon must move to change the policy allowing them to serve.

One of those who could be affected by that joins us now.

Commander Emily Shilling is a decorated Navy pilot with over 60 combat missions and high-risk work as a test pilot.

She's also transgender and the lead plaintiff in one of the legal challenges against the Trump executive order.

Commander, thank you for joining us.

Secretary Hegseth still has about a week or so to meet the deadline for this new policy and exactly define what it will be.

But as we wait for that, have you seen any effect from this executive order, either yourself personally or in the military?

CMDR.

EMILY SHILLING, U.S. Navy: Yes, Lisa, first, thank you for having us on tonight.

These views are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S. Navy or the Department of Defense.

So far, we have thousands of transgender troops currently serving in our armed forces today, and they are deployed across the world, embedded in units today.

And these executive orders and the discussion around transgender service has an immediate effect on them, from overzealous commanders who are taking executive orders as action, to just a detriment to the morale of these individuals and their ability to focus on the mission that they have signed up to volunteer for.

LISA DESJARDINS: You are the lead plaintiff in this lawsuit.

What are you asking for?

What would you like to happen?

CMDR.

EMILY SHILLING: You know, I just want to keep serving.

I have served for nearly 20 years.

I'm a combat aviator, test pilot, and I have served with honor and distinction.

And all I'm asking is for myself and the thousands of other transgender troops just like me to be allowed to continue to do what we want to do, which is serve the American public.

LISA DESJARDINS: President Trump has said that this is about the culture of the military and readiness.

Here's what he told Republicans last month.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Next, to ensure that we have the most lethal fighting force in the world, we will get transgender ideology the hell out of our military.

It's going to be gone.

LISA DESJARDINS: Commander, how do you respond to that?

CMDR.

EMILY SHILLING: You know, the first thing that you learn as an officer and a leader is, the first rule of leadership is to take care of your people.

That means take care of all of your people.

And when you take care of your people, you have an effective, combat-ready force.

We don't necessarily get to choose who's going to volunteer to serve our nation.

We are a melting pot in America, and our armed forces represent that great diversity of our country.

LISA DESJARDINS: Now, those who support the ban have said that -- they point to some physical conditions that the military can use to exclude people from service, like maybe severe asthma.

That's something you hear a lot.

Do you think that that's at all a legitimate argument here?

And what is your response?

CMDR.

EMILY SHILLING: Yes, Lisa, sure, there are other medical conditions in health care that preclude people from service.

But 73 percent of us, 73 percent of transgender individuals are senior enlisted in the military.

That means that they have been in for over 12 years.

When somebody injures their knee or injures their back, we send them for health care and they're down for a little bit of time and we get them the health care they need, and then we return them to combat.

We return them to the force.

It's the same case in this instance.

People just need health care, and it's our duty to give them that and return them to the fight.

LISA DESJARDINS: I want to talk about a bigger picture issue here, which is DEI as well, which sort of overlaps with some of these executive orders.

And conservatives have said, when there's too much focus on identities, that it leads to a less unified military force.

How do you see the role of DEI, which now President Trump has said cannot be enforced in military and other agencies?

But how do you see that role?

Did the military ever go too far with that with all the trainings, or was it useful?

How do you see that debate?

CMDR.

EMILY SHILLING: So, first, let's say what DEI stands for.

That's diversity, equity and inclusion.

And when you actually say the words you realize what we're trying to do.

We're trying to create an environment where our service members feel like they belong, that they're with their battle buddies, that they're with somebody they can trust and count on when they're in the foxhole.

When you create an inclusive environment for others, they bring their whole self.

If they have to leave some portion of them at home, you're only getting 80 percent of the individual.

When they're allowed to bring all of themselves, they end up being better service members, and they end up being better leaders.

For myself, when I was able to start showing up to work as my full self, across the board, I got better reviews, I excelled as a leader, and, actually, I ended up promoting to commander with merit reorder to number one as a transgender woman in the U.S. Navy.

LISA DESJARDINS: You are a decorated service member.

You operate at a very high level, but what can you tell us about those thousands of other transgender members of the service?

I could see conservatives saying, oh, Commander Shilling is an exception.

CMDR.

EMILY SHILLING: Yes, so transgender individuals are no different than any other American.

We're going to have those individuals who excel.

We have those that are mediocre.

We are no different.

But across the board, the thing that stands out is how resilient these service members are.

Think about how hard it is to come into a service or to come out as transgender in the current environment.

Aren't those the type of people that you want to go into combat for you, that amount of courage and that amount of bravery to just be who they are and to show up fully?

LISA DESJARDINS: In our last half-minute or so, you are a military leader.

You're a combat veteran.

What do you think is at stake for the military right now in the directions it chooses?

CMDR.

EMILY SHILLING: I think it's reputation.

We have allowed individuals to serve from all different creeds, all different backgrounds.

And every single time that we have tried to exclude a group of individuals, whether it was by race, religion, gender, we have always been proven wrong in the end.

The same arguments are made time and time again.

And we're going to have to learn that those same arguments are false once again.

LISA DESJARDINS: Commander Emily Shilling, thank you for joining us.

CMDR.

EMILY SHILLING: Thank you, Lisa.