>> CATHY: THE MURDER OF BRIAN MINNETONKA-BASED UNITED HEALTHCARE INSURANCE COMPANY, LAST WEEK IN NEW YORK HAS DOMINATED NATIONAL AND LOCAL NEWS.

POLICE HAVE ARRESTED AND CHARGED LUIGI MANGIONE FOR THE MURDER, WHILE THE KILLING HAS SPARKED INTENSE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE BROADER AMERICAN HEALTHCARE AND INSURANCE INDUSTRIES.

CHRISTOPHER SNOWBECK COVERS HEALTHCARE FOR THE "MINNESOTA STAR TRIBUNE," WHICH IS ALSO THE BEAT AND THE EMPLOYER OF JEREMY OLSON.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

CHRISTOPHER, YOU AND I HAD A CHANCE TO TALK EARLIER THIS WEEK ON MINNESOTA PUBLIC RADIO AND YOU'VE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS ILONG TIME AS HAVE I, AND WE BOTH AGREED, WE HAVEN'T SEEN PUBLIC REACTION LIKE THIS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS BEHIND IT?

>> A LITTLE -- THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF -- SOCIAL MEDIA IS A BIG -- WE SEE MORE THAN WE DID IN THE '90s.

THERE WAS VITRIOL IN THE '90s.

THERE WAS GREAT CONTROVERSY AROUND THIS AS WELL, PUSHBACK AGAINST H.M.O.s.

BUT I THINK WE SEE A LOT ORE WITH SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND I THINK THE INDUSTRY IS CLEARLY HEARING IT.

I MEAN, EVEN JUST BEFORE I CAME OVER TONIGHT, YOU KNOW, UNITED HEALTH GROUP HAS ISSUED WHAT THEY CALL A STATEMENT AGAINST MISINFORMATION ABOUT THEIR CLAIMS DENIAL RATE.

>> Eric: DO WE KNOW -- DO WE HAVE DATA ON DENIALS OR IS THAT AVAILABLE TOLL THE PUBLIC?

>> YEAH, THERE'S DATA HERE AND THERE.

THERE WAS A SENATE SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT LOOKING AT DENIALS BY UNITED HEALTHCARE AND TWO OTHER INSURERS OF POST-HOSPITAL CARE.

AND THIS IS REALLY EXPENSIVE CARE.

AND UNITED HEALTH DENIES THAT, PRIOR AUTHORIZATION REQUESTS FOR THAT AT A HIGHER RATE THAN OTHER THINGS.

THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE WHERE THERE WAS SOME INFLATED DENIAL OF CLAIMS TO SAVE MONEY.

OR AT LEAST THAT WAS THE ALLEGATION.

>> Eric: ELIDS BETH WARREN, U.S.

SENATOR, SAID OF THE SHOOTING, IT'S A WARNING TO EVERYONE IN HE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

ARE THEY GOING TO DO MORE THAN JUST LOCK BUILDINGS AND HIRE BODYGUARDS?

OR DO YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A SINCERE EFFORT TO SPARK SOME CHANGE HERE?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S -- I FIND IT A REALLY COMPLICATED ISSUE, BECAUSE JEREMY AND I HAVE READ THE STUDIES AND THE DATA AND E'VE ANALYZED THE DATA.

THE THING IS LIKE SO MANY THINGS IN HEALTHCARE, THERE'S A LOT OF COMPLEXITY HERE.

AND YOU WANT A LITTLE NUMBER THAT YOU CAN PIN T ALL ON.

BUT YOU START PEELING, AND I THINK BECAUSE OF THAT COMPLEXITY, CHANGE GETS BOGGED DOWN.

>> CAN I OFFER A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO SAVING HEALTHCARE DOLLARS, THOUGH?

DON'T SHOOT PEOPLE.

IN THE ERA OF VIGILANTE JUSTICE, PUBLIC HEALTH MESSAGES, IF YOU'VE BEEN A TRAUMA CENTER AND SEEN THE LIVE-SAVING WORK THAT DOCTORS DO, IT'S AMAZING, BUT IT'S ALSO AMAZINGLY EXPENSIVE.

IT'S THE SAME THING WITH OTHER THINGS, WITH EATING HEALTHY, THERE ARE WAYS WE CAN CUT DOWN HEALTHCARE COSTS WITHOUT DEALING WITH THE RED TAPE.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS, THE GENERAL PUBLIC?

JUST CURIOUS?

>> ABOUT WHICH?

>> Cathy: ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE?

WHAT DON'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE SYSTEM?

THEY'RE ANGRY AT THE SYSTEM BUT WHAT DON'T THEY UNDERSTAND ABOUT IT?

>> IN THE LAST YEAR, I'VE DONE A FEW STORIES ABOUT SOME FOLKS WHO HAD CARE, THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS GOING TO BE OKAY, AND THEN GOT REALLY BIG BILLS AFTER THE FACT AND PROTRACTED ARGUMENTS WITH SORT OF GETTING CAUGHT IN BETWEEN INSURERS AND HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS BOUT WHAT WAS THE BILL, WAS THE PROVIDER IN NETWORK, WAS THE PRIOR AUTHORIZATION LEGIT?

AND SO I THINK WHAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS TRULY LIKE INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO MOST OF US.

LIKE, THERE IS A HIGH DEGREE -- THERE'S A VERY COMPLEX SORT OF BACK AND FORTH THAT HAPPENS THAT PERCENTFULLY WE'RE IGNORANT OF MOST OF THE TIME.

>> Eric: DID ONE OF THE ANONYMOUS SOURCES THAT WAS -- COULD SPEAK FREELY, WASN'T THE QUOTE, THE SYSTEM IS, QUOTE, SUCH A MESS?

>> YEAH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Eric: SO THERE'S AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE OR -- >> THERE IS, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOU THINK BECAUSE EVERYONE SAYS, OH, MY PREMIUMS ARE GOING UP.

THESE DARN FOR-PROFIT COMPANIES.

I'LL BET THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING IT HAVE A 401K AND I'LL BET THAT 401K IS ALSO CONTINGENT ON GROWTH -- >> Eric: SHAREHOLDER VALUE.

>> YEAH, WE'RE ALL INVESTED IN SHAREHOLDER VALUE AND THAT INCREASING.

SO I GET THE POINT ABOUT RISING COSTS.

THEY ABSOLUTELY ARE GOING UP ASTRONOMICALLY, UNITED HEALTH IS A PART OF THAT.

BUT WE'RE ALSO IN A FREE MARKET SYSTEM THAT WE'RE BENEFITING FROM AS WELL.

>> Eric: WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE RESPONSE, THE OP-ED THAT ANDREW WITTE WROTE IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND THEN IT WAS REPUBLISHED IN THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

THE LEADER OF UNITED HEALTH AT THIS POINT?

NOT ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THINGS HAD TO CHANGE.

BUT YOU LOOK AT THIS AND THINK, REALLY?

WHAT'S THE PUSH TOWARD ANY CHANGE?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S THE THING, IS IT WINDOW DRESSING?

IS IT JUST -- I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A QUESTION OF ATTENTION SPAN.

IN SOME WAYS.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY HIS IS -- WE'VE GONE FROM THIS HORRIBLE TRAGEDY FOR A FAMILY IN OUR COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, WHICH WE -- GETS LOST SIGHT OF IN ALL OF THIS, WHICH IS TERRIBLE.

AND -- BUT PART OF THE REASON IS, THIS IS -- THIS OTHER ISSUE HAS BEEN OUT THERE SINCE THE '90s.

IT WAS A HOT BUTTON ISSUE THEN, AND WE KIND OF FORGOT ABOUT IT.

AND IT'S -- IT COMES AND GOES, AND COMES AND GOES, AND COMES AND GOES, AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL BE PAYING ATTENTION LONG ENOUGH TO SEE CHANGE.

>> Eric: YOU GUYS WILL BE ON THE CASE AS THE 2025 POLICY THINGS GET UNVEILED, AND SEE P IF SOME CHANGES ARE MADE IN HEALTHCARE.

>> RIGHT.

>> THAT TENDS TO COME UP IN